Which Megasquirt?

[noice]

Motec has always been a top brand,but in earlier years it was just too expensive for the average hotrodder
The last 4-5 years the pricing has come down alot,they even released some simpler lower cost versions but those are not available anymore afaik

Everythign MoTec I'ver ever touched has been really good but stupid expensive. The M800 was...$5k before it was running the engine. I bought an M150 which was like $3800...but no FW, that started at $800, $1200 for a decent set of features, $2500 for the full setup ok...but wait there's more! No logging for that price, basic loggingof 200ch at 100hz is $400 (plenty of ch but not enough speed for troubleshooting IMO), full logging of 2000ch at 1000hz is $1500. Ok......but wiat, no O2 sensor reading at that price, it only accepts CAN based O2 inputs, $800 for 2 ch. After laying out what I needed (V12) I decide it would be cheaper to throw the M150 hardward in the trash and but an enginelab that as far as I could tell had everything the M150 had other than being limited to only 200ch at 1000hz logging.......I'm really happy with the switch.

Back to MS....it doesn't do any of that

For a basic ECU that can be upgraded to a pretty good setup that MS3 looks pretty good....but a motec competitor or substitute it ain't.

Can it easily control a 4l80e or 4l60e transmission so I can actually drive the vehicle on the interstate with some semblance of gas milage in a daily driver?

Will it keep enough money in my pocket to spend on other aspects of my project?

Those were the two top specs I was looking at for an ECU.

An ecu that doesn't come with O2? That seems like buying a house a brick at a time. I'm not competing with professionals at some race series. Just trying to enjoy a hobby.

What are you needing better than 100hz logging? Ignition signals? Camshaft/crank signals?

[n2xlr8n]

I'm using the MS3 (Stinger-based Pimpx) on my little 2.3L Ranger. E85, 190 lb/hr injectors, 7k rpm, 29 psi (58 lb/min) using GM COP and a turbopete 36:1 wheel for ignition, but batch fueling.

I'm happy with it so far- and my previous experience was with OEM Subaru ECUs (using both MAF and SD...I prefer SD), which have been cracked to the point of 99% control.

MS3 Basic functions:
-Supports speed density, alpha-N (TPS based), or MAF based fuel and spark tables
-2D and 3D Table Viewing
-.01 ms injector pulse width resolution
-Analyze Live "Auto Tune" Fuel/VE Live Tuning (More Info)
-Ability to seamlessly blend load modes (speed density/alpha-N/MAF)
-Supports most OEM Crank/Cam/Position Sensors
-Individual cylinder trim tables for fuel and ignition
-Completely configurable idle speed control
-Boost control with two separate wastegate outputs for closed loop, open loop, boost by gear, boost by speed, hi/low via toggle switch, (uses 1 PWM output per solenoid, plug and play with 87/88 TurboCoupe wiring pinout)
-Variable valve timing (VVT) control (uses 1 PWM output per camshaft
-2-Stage nitrous control (progressive or on/off -uses 1 PWM output per stage)
-3-Step rev limiter (burnout limiter, launch rpm limit, redline, line lock staging output)
-2 or 3 step rev limiter (launch control) with no-lift shifting (anti-lag)
-Trans Brake Control (Bump Box)
-Flat-Shift (maintains boost between shifts)
-Traction Control by VSS or RPM (Strategies: Perfect Pass via VSS, Perfect Run RPM)
-Rally anti-lag with rotational idle
-Staged injection (dependent on available injector channels)
-Table switching (dual fuel, spark, boost - uses 87/88 TurboCoupe premium fuel switch pinout)
-16 x 16 fuel and spark tables with completely configurable “break points”
-Wideband AFR target tables
-Flex fuel sensor input for easy switching between gasoline and E85 – can automatically change fuel, ignition, and boost maps based on ethanol content of gasoline
-Knock control with adjustable crank angle windowing can adjust sensitivity based on RPM or which cylinder is firing (Internal Knock Module not included with standard PiMPx or PiMPxs. This feature is not plug and play)
-Allows repurposing injector or ignition outputs as general purpose outputs.
-Real time barometric correction (on board sensor provided, uses 1 generic input)
-A/C and dual stage cooling fan control with idle compensation (uses 87/88 TurboCoupe pinout)
-Safety shutdown based on AFR or EGT input
-Sequential shift cut and air shifter control
-Diagnostics to detect and ignore failing sensors – can automatically switch from speed density to alpha-N in the event of a MAP sensor failure
-Closed Loop Fuel Control
-Multiple Idle Strategies (Open Loop, Closed Loop, PWM, Stepper, On/Off Valve Supported)
-Fuel Pump Control (On/Off Single Or Multiple Pumps, PWM Variable Speed/Pressure Pump Control)
-Modify tune and view all gauges on your Android smartphone or tablet with an external Bluetooth adapter
-Use Android device for GPS or accelerometer datalogging (Bluetooth adapter required)
-User upgradeable firmware (easily load new features/functionality as they become available)

[Keith Morganstein]

As this is discussed, I'm also doing plenty of reading. I've read the MS2 and MS3X hardware and appicafion manuals. I've read the tunerstudio manual and watched some videos. I've done the same with maxxecu. I looked at the AEM and some other "affordable" systems.

From what I can see l, MS3X is the best value. I'll buy the kit with 3.0 board, this allows customization and rework.

I was thinking of just the minimum to get the job done, but MS3X just does so much more for a reasonable cost. I also find the msextra manuals good for my way of thinking.

[Belgian1979]

[noice]

As this is discussed, I'm also doing plenty of reading. I've read the MS2 and MS3X hardware and appicafion manuals. I've read the tunerstudio manual and watched some videos. I've done the same with maxxecu. I looked at the AEM and some other "affordable" systems.

From what I can see l, MS3X is the best value. I'll buy the kit with 3.0 board, this allows customization and rework.

I was thinking of just the minimum to get the job done, but MS3X just does so much more for a reasonable cost. I also find the msextra manuals good for my way of thinking.

Some of the MS dealers, like DIYAutoTune have trigger wheels that you can buy, couple it with a cam signal and you can run whatever injector and coil you want.

[mk e]

Can it easily control a 4l80e or 4l60e transmission so I can actually drive the vehicle on the interstate with some semblance of gas milage in a daily driver?

yes. both motec and enginelab have lots of outputs (I thing they are both 120 pin) that can be programmed to do anyhting you please and can use CAN expanders if you need more, so either ECU could conent to your MS trans unit if you wanted to, but they could also do the job directly.

Will it keep enough money in my pocket to spend on other aspects of my project?

enginelab would...at $1900 and needing no additional anything its probably the most capable/$....but you need to write the control logic you want, it comes with nothing control logic wise so either the motec or MS are much easier to setup.

An ecu that doesn't come with O2? That seems like buying a house a brick at a time. I'm not competing with professionals at some race series. Just trying to enjoy a hobby.

or logging. Yes, when I realized how deep they were trying to reach into my pockets the M150 went on ebay and I bought the enginelab.

What are you needing better than 100hz logging? Ignition signals? Camshaft/crank signals?

I use it for troubleshooting not normal logging. For example I read MAP on a 3ms thread so I know each cylinder MAP and use that to trim fuel to compensate for TBs that might not be sync'd perfect and also use it to create a TB sync page, so 333hz and pull out the cylinder date...stuff like that.

[mk e]

As this is discussed, I'm also doing plenty of reading. I've read the MS2 and MS3X hardware and appicafion manuals. I've read the tunerstudio manual and watched some videos. I've done the same with maxxecu. I looked at the AEM and some other "affordable" systems.

From what I can see l, MS3X is the best value. I'll buy the kit with 3.0 board, this allows customization and rework.

I was thinking of just the minimum to get the job done, but MS3X just does so much more for a reasonable cost. I also find the msextra manuals good for my way of thinking.

Sounds like a winning a plan.

It's worth the trouble to get a good crank sensor setup with at least 36 teeth on the wheel and an OEM grade sensor (cheaper industrial sensors can be REALLY inaccurate) and a cam sensor.

Check this and all the other primary sensor signals at the beginning and a few times through tuning to be certain the ecu is getting the info you think it is... .this is where high speed logging is helpful but if you have or can borrow a scope that works at least as well, just a little more effort.

Good luck!

[emsvitil]

You can download the free version of tunerstudio and play with it to get an idea of how it works without having any hardware hooked up.



http://www.tunerstudio.com/index.php/downloads

[Cutlassefi]

MS2 is on its way out. I originally started with MS2 but soon changed to an MS3X. No real development on MS2 anymore. MS3 offers timed injection and things like COP/CNP. Well worth it imo.

After a lot searching for info (and not finding what I wanted), I finally found my way to the “ msextra hardware manuals”. What I find is MS2, 3, 3X all have the same main board and core. Then additional boards are added for 3 and 3X, it’s not until 3X that it provide full sequential injection and ignition for up to 8 cylinders . I also found With some minor mods MS2 would do what I need. (Internal wiring mods for up to six Logic outputs for LS type coils)
However, for $100. more, I can buy the MS3 kit.

I know there are many better, more expensive systems out there. A big part of this project for me is the educational aspect.

Look into this;
https://www.aemelectronics.com/products ... y-Series-3
They're having a sale right now as well so I/they can put you into a system pretty economically.
Sequential, 9 outputs, COP, datalogging, and a super fast processor (400mips), great software.

Hope this helps.

[mk e]

Look into this;
https://www.aemelectronics.com/products ... y-Series-3
They're having a sale right now as well so I/they can put you into a system pretty economically.
Sequential, 9 outputs, COP, datalogging, and a super fast processor (400mips), great software.

Hope this helps.

$737? That's crazy cheap for that ecu!

[Keith Morganstein]

MS2 is on its way out. I originally started with MS2 but soon changed to an MS3X. No real development on MS2 anymore. MS3 offers timed injection and things like COP/CNP. Well worth it imo.

After a lot searching for info (and not finding what I wanted), I finally found my way to the “ msextra hardware manuals”. What I find is MS2, 3, 3X all have the same main board and core. Then additional boards are added for 3 and 3X, it’s not until 3X that it provide full sequential injection and ignition for up to 8 cylinders . I also found With some minor mods MS2 would do what I need. (Internal wiring mods for up to six Logic outputs for LS type coils)
However, for $100. more, I can buy the MS3 kit.

I know there are many better, more expensive systems out there. A big part of this project for me is the educational aspect.

Look into this;
https://www.aemelectronics.com/products ... y-Series-3
They're having a sale right now as well so I/they can put you into a system pretty economically.
Sequential, 9 outputs, COP, datalogging, and a super fast processor (400mips), great software.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, I’m reading up on that one. So the 308 is for LS style coils? (Logic). And the 358 is for direct drive coils?
I don’t see that either has on board data logging, but must be connected to a laptop to log.

Have you used that 3 series?

[mk e]

I don’t see that either has on board data logging, but must be connected to a laptop to log.

Have you used that 3 series?

The 5 and 7 (the HW I have) use a usb stick which I've never used, I use the laptop. It looks like the 3 is laptop or CAN based logger (5 and 7 can use this as well).

[Keith Morganstein]

I’ve read so many hardware and application manuals for these systems that I’m overloaded.

AEM infinity 3, looks good and fast, does 8 sequential, but still requires a WBO controller, MAP sensor and needs a laptop to log.

The maxxecu street also looks good, but is limited to 6 sequential. Otherwise it has about the most built in features, including WBO controller. It would do the 6 cylinder project, but if at some point I put the original engine back in the truck, I can’t use the max on another V8.

It’s kind of amazing that the added together system of MS3X does so much, even if it has a slower processor etc...

[mk e]

It’s kind of amazing that the added together system of MS3X does so much, even if it has a slower processor etc...

That processor part is what you pay for with the other systems. It lets you log 200 channels at 1000hz while updating fuel and spark on every cylinder every cycle. An MS3 can't come close to that....but most people don't need that either.

The AEM laptop interface is pretty nice (the same software I use with enginelab but the AEM version doesn't let you edit the core system operating system), just right click add a gauge or plot. Logs are right there on your tuning screens, gauges and everything else plays back the same info as the log when you're reviewing log data, 1 click and your back to live data. Its nice. But again Tunerstudio does is all most people need.

There is no right answer so unless you have very specific needs its mostly about what you're comfortable with and comfort is mostly about support and getting help when you need it.

[Cutlassefi]

I’ve read so many hardware and application manuals for these systems that I’m overloaded.

AEM infinity 3, looks good and fast, does 8 sequential, but still requires a WBO controller, MAP sensor and needs a laptop to log.
The maxxecu street also looks good, but is limited to 6 sequential. Otherwise it has about the most built in features, including WBO controller. It would do the 6 cylinder project, but if at some point I put the original engine back in the truck, I can’t use the max on another V8.
It’s kind of amazing that the added together system of MS3X does so much, even if it has a slower processor etc...

Yes it logs to the laptop. Their wideband hooks right up via the CAN, and their O2's are faster and more accurate than anything else out there right now. This is the second of two independent tests, proved the same as the first one.
http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/quick-tes ... band-uego/
And for the life of me I don't know why you'd want an internal MAP like the MS and others, what if it fails? And they do from time to time.