Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

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cyclecyko
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liners

Post by cyclecyko » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:01 am

we regularly use k liners to freshen a worn bronze guide. to the best of my knowledge any failure would be a result of poor and in accurate machining.
Is this where Im suposed to write something clever so everone can know how cool I am

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Post by Brooks Elliott » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:21 pm

I'm with you there. If the valve has run-out or the seat is not concentric with the guide, the valve will 'rub' the seat while trying to find center and side-load the guide. Perfect valve/guide/seat concentricity with minimum clearance will increase the life of the guide/liner.

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Bronze vs K-Line liners

Post by jimivice » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:21 am

I agree with everyone on this sight. I find no fault with liners if installed correctly. In extreme applications a hardened cast iron guide might be the best choice. I have installed liners with hand tools and on head machines with no adverse effects. If possible I will use a liner to avoid replacing a guide. There is less of a problem relocating a seat with a liner as opposed to a guide.

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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by NXBOY » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:52 am

My friend just bought some auto machining equipment. He has a valve and guide machine and alot of miscellaneous reamers and stuff. He found some goodson ,371,372,.373 reamors and would like to be able to install Bronze liners. I heard there .030 bigger, if right a .341 + .030 wouldn't have enough press fit. I believe 1.5 thousands is right. I did theses in auto mechanics in the 80s and thought that kit used a threaded reamer so when ya broached it,it set it in the grooves?? HIS driver and Seat pilot and guide machine should all work ok with liners?. Any one know the exact measurements of a bronze liner? I told him I will buy the broach new for him for doing my guides if I can figure a doable method to do our own stuff. He has flex hones for guides too. Trimming liners we have figured out. I know there all types of liners and tools. Any help appreciated..,ED

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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by Frankshaft » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:25 pm

NXBOY wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:52 am
My friend just bought some auto machining equipment. He has a valve and guide machine and alot of miscellaneous reamers and stuff. He found some goodson ,371,372,.373 reamors and would like to be able to install Bronze liners. I heard there .030 bigger, if right a .341 + .030 wouldn't have enough press fit. I believe 1.5 thousands is right. I did theses in auto mechanics in the 80s and thought that kit used a threaded reamer so when ya broached it,it set it in the grooves?? HIS driver and Seat pilot and guide machine should all work ok with liners?. Any one know the exact measurements of a bronze liner? I told him I will buy the broach new for him for doing my guides if I can figure a doable method to do our own stuff. He has flex hones for guides too. Trimming liners we have figured out. I know there all types of liners and tools. Any help appreciated..,ED
Sounds like a mess waiting to happen.

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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by NXBOY » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:01 pm

He was the one that thinks he has the stuff to add liners, i wanted to go in half on a K-liner install kit. I'll tell him its a bad Idea.

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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by Dave Koehler » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:13 pm

NXBOY wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:01 pm
He was the one that thinks he has the stuff to add liners, i wanted to go in half on a K-liner install kit. I'll tell him its a bad Idea.
Both of you should read back through this thread slowly so you understand what is what as far as liners go.
At the very least look up liner kits on Goodson or kLine to see what pieces are involved as He has nothing for liner work so far.

Normally one buys equipment after already having some experience in a given field not the other way around. Time to crack the books.
The only bad idea you have is going partners on this.
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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by Frankshaft » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:49 am

Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:25 pm
NXBOY wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:52 am
My friend just bought some auto machining equipment. He has a valve and guide machine and alot of miscellaneous reamers and stuff. He found some goodson ,371,372,.373 reamors and would like to be able to install Bronze liners. I heard there .030 bigger, if right a .341 + .030 wouldn't have enough press fit. I believe 1.5 thousands is right. I did theses in auto mechanics in the 80s and thought that kit used a threaded reamer so when ya broached it,it set it in the grooves?? HIS driver and Seat pilot and guide machine should all work ok with liners?. Any one know the exact measurements of a bronze liner? I told him I will buy the broach new for him for doing my guides if I can figure a doable method to do our own stuff. He has flex hones for guides too. Trimming liners we have figured out. I know there all types of liners and tools. Any help appreciated..,ED
Sounds like a mess waiting to happen.
I apologize for that comment. It was uncalled for. Had a bad day.

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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by NXBOY » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:07 pm

Partners?? I just don't ask for free help. Its been a while but but both of us in the 80s used a KIT and put liners in our High school hotrods and they worked just fine. Like I said He wanted me to find out what exactly was needed because he thought he had alot of what needed. That was after I mentioned if I could use it for my personal stuff too if he would go in half and buy a Goodson kit. He is going on vacation and didn't have the extra cash right now. I know there is alot for him to learn. He got a great deal on the equipment and does real good work porting heads and flowing them. Makes since for him to put in his own guides. He's already pretty decent on milling heads. He can put in .500 cast iron guides, but I don't want him taking that much of his time doing it. He works around 70 hrs a wk. I do see that every kit is a little different with liners. I came out expressing my novice so why the chip? Guess this isn't a place that wants newby questions.

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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by tresi » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:30 pm

NXBOY wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:07 pm
Partners?? I just don't ask for free help. Its been a while but but both of us in the 80s used a KIT and put liners in our High school hotrods and they worked just fine. Like I said He wanted me to find out what exactly was needed because he thought he had alot of what needed. That was after I mentioned if I could use it for my personal stuff too if he would go in half and buy a Goodson kit. He is going on vacation and didn't have the extra cash right now. I know there is alot for him to learn. He got a great deal on the equipment and does real good work porting heads and flowing them. Makes since for him to put in his own guides. He's already pretty decent on milling heads. He can put in .500 cast iron guides, but I don't want him taking that much of his time doing it. He works around 70 hrs a wk. I do see that every kit is a little different with liners. I came out expressing my novice so why the chip? Guess this isn't a place that wants newby questions.
Just plain reamers won't work. You would be trying to take out too much metal at 1 time for those reamers. I would guess you could buy just the boring tool but then you would lack the centering cones and bushing. If you're going to try to align the boring tool with a seat and guide machine you're not saving any time, you might as well put in a solid guide. Buy the time you try to piece mill out enough tooling to do the job you'll end up spending just as much money as buying a proper kit.

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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by Dave Koehler » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:13 pm

Newbie questions are fine but carefully plan and layout your question so it won't be misconstrued.
Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. What you wrote indicated neither of you had a grip on what liners required.
Hence mine and earlier posts should be re-read.

It's nice that you want to help him BUT buy the tooling and keep it in your possesion. If he wants to buy it from you that is fine.
Hence the partner comment. That never, ever works out. Someday the tooling can and will get used up and you may want it again. Want to buy it again? That is when best intentions go south.
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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by tresi » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:05 pm

Dave Koehler wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:13 pm
Newbie questions are fine but carefully plan and layout your question so it won't be misconstrued.
Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. What you wrote indicated neither of you had a grip on what liners required.
Hence mine and earlier posts should be re-read.

It's nice that you want to help him BUT buy the tooling and keep it in your possesion. If he wants to buy it from you that is fine.
Hence the partner comment. That never, ever works out. Someday the tooling can and will get used up and you may want it again. Want to buy it again? That is when best intentions go south.
I worked for a guy about 30 years ago. The only smart thing that came out of his mouth was "Partners are only good for 2 things, dancing and screwing". Quote edited for language

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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by NXBOY » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:45 pm

Thanks Tresi, thats all I need to tell him. I had mt doubts about regular reamers anyway. He wanted me to see if his stuff could work with liners . I've seen the centering cones , Thought maybe his would work with his reamer, Now I've learned liners kits for hand or drill reamers are like a taper cut then I can tell him that. Probably would of lock the drill up and found out his self . Not sure if he is using table or not, but see your point of the time taken to line up. Any way he done did enough free for me, if we went in half on the basic kit, got one set of guides done for a friends head that I'm porting as a friend! And do the two sets I need done. I would possibly come out a little ahead money wise. I feel I owe him and maybe can help both , he doesn't want to charge me anything . I have a problem with that. Going in half on a kit was my idea and I won't be working on stuff much longer anyways. Thanks for the heads up

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Re: Bronze guides vs. K-Line liners

Post by Frankshaft » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:51 am

You mentioned he can do .502 guides, personally, that's what I would run if I were you. What heads are these? But I would use bronze. You mentioned he does good with .502 iron guides, you use the same tooling to install the .502 bronze guides. They are better anyhow. Then no one has to buy anything. I am assuming these are stock castings of some sort, and installing the .502 guides can allow you to get creative in a few ways. 1: you can mill all the bs off the sring side of the head, flush to the spring seat. Then, use a .502/.570 step/.530 seal style bronze guide. That way you can use an id locator for your valve spring, and it eliminates a lot of headaches trying to fit bigger springs on stock type heads. 2: You can get more creative in the bowl area around the guide boss, and still have guide length, and then stream line the .502 end of the guide that's in the bowl. There can be a big gain from using that style guide, and not lose guide support. sbi 340-1042 guides, they are triple the price of a liners, but its worth it. If you go that route, that sbi number is off the top of my head, pretty sure that's the number for the guide you want, but feel free to pm me and I can get you the correct number.

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Re:

Post by David Vizard » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:14 pm

PackardV8 wrote:
Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:33 am
Getting way off topic here, but trying to learn something; why would anyone with a towing application, expecting 300kmi of reliable, economical service, be running a SBC?

thnx, jack vines
Ouch!
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