Pro Stock Pontica Heads #427 for BBC Valve Train System

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Post by star393 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:43 pm

[quote="star393"]AF2 if you can hear a Banjo are they playing Oh Susana man i like that one can you hear a Harmonica too i can play can you?? making music and having afew beers how thats happy time too.[/quote]

Hey i was being nice too i love the Banjo and do play the Harmonica
and Oh Susanna is a great song. :-({|=

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Post by new engine builder » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:00 pm

star393 wrote:
star393 wrote:AF2 if you can hear a Banjo are they playing Oh Susana man i like that one can you hear a Harmonica too i can play can you?? making music and having afew beers how thats happy time too.
Hey i was being nice too i love the Banjo and do play the Harmonica
and Oh Susanna is a great song. :-({|=
I think your favorite instrument is a skin flute. :shock:

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Post by star393 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:15 pm

new engine builder wrote:
star393 wrote:
star393 wrote:AF2 if you can hear a Banjo are they playing Oh Susana man i like that one can you hear a Harmonica too i can play can you?? making music and having afew beers how thats happy time too.
Hey i was being nice too i love the Banjo and do play the Harmonica
and Oh Susanna is a great song. :-({|=
I think your favorite instrument is a skin flute. :shock:
You are really trying my patience here you have no brains resorting to low life coments like that. Your a PUNK

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Post by af2 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:06 am

All BS aside!!! You're idea on springs will really mess someone up using the .200 above coil bind! I have to say it as others have that is wrong! I know you will beat the crap out of me but I don't really care!

I wish you the best! That is all I can do with you being the smartest in the bunch!
I hope you might listen and learn as many people have on this forum. :D
GURU is only a name.
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Post by RL » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:45 am

First of all i did prove that already in the 70,s running altered you know weight to cubic inches it was no fun i ran away with everything we didnot have great time slips like today. That was three diff. tracks.
I have been thinking of putting my sbc back together again just to prove a point. The 461 heads are gone but still have my turbo 292 heads they ran me to 10.98 @124 mph in my little 283CI motor yep 10500 valve float at 11,000 stock rods steel crank 2 bolt mains chevy forged pistons 56cc angled milled heads now you dont think for one min. that stock push rods were used do ya, trw oil pump and 10 quart pan. roller cam. The hours involved in preping a set of rods is endless, crank too and a over bal. bottom end. I would buy a 4340 set of rods next go around why push my luck with the old ones. The flat tappet cams advailable back then were fair and i ran 11.20,s with that and oem rockers so alot can be had when things are done right. My point in all this was to let people of today know that stock parts can be used if done right and a person can have fun and still go fast on a strict buget with oem parts. You dont have to spend alot of money and go fast people are losing the abilty to practice real mechcanics and thinking back to the basics. I call today the big candy store of speed get out your credit card and order and ask afew people for combo info and slap it all together, which is great but like math. get out the calulator and punch buttons and cant do it on paper with a pencil. It keeps everyone else rich and the poor , poorer with no real knowledge of what there really doing. And if you really have money order and engine put it in and go racing. Besides a motor is one thing hooking up that power to the ground is another, another area that is lost with people or racers, chassic and the function or making it all work. I sure wish i had 60 ft time slips from back then because i know i was running atleast 1.150 times, i run 1.245 now without even trying to tune my 4 link. Power adders wow go fast with a slow winding motor and enjoy but when it goes boom your done big time. And yes cast pistons can go fast to but watch out for them valves thats big trouble then. All the functions of all the internal parts on a high rpm motor have to be done right or it will never live. After the sbc came my BBC 454 closed chamber heads stock steel rods steel crank flat tappet cam forged pistons 2 bolt mains spun that to 9500 10,000 also 9.89 138 mph in a chevy 2 in 1974 . I had alot of work trying to keep a 4 speed in that car that thing was like a arrow off a cross bow.
I was just speaking to my friend a couple of month ago about what the old timers were doing back then. In the old days there were no steel cranks, rods, aftermarket blocks, heads etc you had to use what was available and they were spun over 9000rpm. Thats just what you had to do. My friend still has articles from magazines

As an example the Cleveland blocks had thin bores so they bored the bores right out, fitted sleeves and welded the top and bottom, same with the heads

None of the figures posted, except for the rpm, are that exceptional.

But now it's 2008 and you can do the same thing on pump gas in a street car with less rpm and without the high failure rate

Some people are still old school and don't keep up with the times. What can you do

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Post by mmmitch588 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:04 am

RL, how true , but you can't take away from the old school guys as what they or I should say we had to work with 30 or more years ago & had to make things work & LIVE took a lot more effort to what we are doing now.Things have only become easier & in comparison cheaper.

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Post by new engine builder » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:29 am

star393 wrote:
new engine builder wrote:
star393 wrote: Hey i was being nice too i love the Banjo and do play the Harmonica
and Oh Susanna is a great song. :-({|=
I think your favorite instrument is a skin flute. :shock:
You are really trying my patience here you have no brains resorting to low life coments like that. Your a PUNK
I have not been called a punk in well over 20 years.
I had a good laugh when I read this.
I have heard a lot of these old "bench-racing" tales.
I'll bet you thought I was about 18 and did not know any better and you wanted to try and impress me with your vast knowledge.
I have been around drag racing and dirt-track racing since about 1982.
I ran a bracket car and a rail from 1985 to 2002 twice a week from March until November both 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile.
I started building my own engines.
First it was a 327,350 and then a 393.
Then it was a 468,496, and when I got out it was a 540 with a Rons "Flying-Toliet".
I have done my own work except the tranny work.
Like I said before I'm a new engine builder compared to some of the pro's on here but not that new. :)

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Post by star393 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:46 pm

My intentions of posting all this info is one to let people know what a part is REALLY capable of. The art of what you call old timers or old school is knowledge and that is being lost to great parts out of the box and daddies credit card. The one nice thing about this internet is the communication of all great minds young and old that have a LOVE for this sport and yet not the money for it. There nothing wrong with getting 600 hp from a well preped bottom end to 7500 easy. And yes they can easly go to 9000 and beyond with some serious prep work. And still be within a poor persons buget. Iam not saying that everyone needs to spin a bottom end to 10,000 or beyond but they can, done right. As far as keeping up with the times i have and its all about money now not brains or knowledge 35,000 for a motor and your in like flint The poor end of NHRA top fuel drivers and builders are being weeded out by NhRA and kicked out because they are in the way of major adversizing and take up time, so maybe we all should just quit and not go to races and allow just the rich run this sport also. IOt already has. Nascar 5 million min. to play there. For the week end warrior yep 720 cube motor on pump gas spun to 5500 built on a 6,000.00 alum block cool shit to and a $15,000 cage chassis and
go like hell and dont even worry about hurting the motor. Add some turbo and 2000 hp easy Its all easy street you dont have to learn nothing. Iam sure glad that NHRA still has pro stock left and there should be smaller classes of pro stock to boot and bigger classes with no power adders. I think theres plenty of other power adder class . 8,00 are nothing now but still a respected number with no power adders. Yep the big Candy Store get your credit cards out the hell with knowing anything. The school system has already ROBBED the schools of most hands on shops auto shops are the last to go. Because of no knowledge alot of oem parts are being talked on but you can build a great motor on oem parts with knowledge but you have to learn about major groups of science before you can attemp that. You take Old School and combine that with todays parts and you got 1200 hp easy on racing gas without even trying with no power adders. Power adders = $$$$$$$$ still the rich end. But there here to stay because there easy to make power. But lets not lose site of knowledge, hey dont get me wrong there has to be knowledge in power adder motors also but in a diff. way.
To new Engine Builder you dont have to be 25 to be a punk all you have to do is act like one. Yes you have a nice history behine you keep it up and keep the book open.

Dont be scared to try something new ive been running springs all my life and know there limits from track knowledge .150 from coil bind will keep your pocket with a jingle and a steak on the table. You have to step up to the bigger springs which are stable and costly but worth the investment. Springs are like a pin on a Granade. and because of all the great new pistons materials and 4340 materials 4140 8620 9310 stuff a motor can survive some of these mishaps. Iam not saying everone has to do it this way but atleast have the knowledge of what your doing.
You still can,t trust anything out of the box looks nice.


Happy ThanksGiving To All Douglas

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Post by star393 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:25 pm

star393 wrote:My intentions of posting all this info is one to let people know what a part is REALLY capable of. younger generations are missing out on alot of info,The art of what you call old timers or old school is knowledge and that is being lost to great parts out of the box and daddies credit card. OEM parts are being ynder rated. The one nice thing about this internet is the communication of all great minds young and old that have a LOVE for this sport and yet not the money for it. There nothing wrong with getting 600 hp from a well preped bottom end to 7500 easy. And yes they can easly go to 9000 and beyond with some serious prep work. And still be within a poor persons buget. Iam not saying that everyone needs to spin a bottom end to 10,000 or beyond but they can, done right. As far as keeping up with the times i have and its all about money now not brains or knowledge 35,000 for a motor and your in like flint The poor end of NHRA top fuel drivers and builders are being weeded out by NhRA and kicked out because they are in the way of major adversizing and take up time, so maybe we all should just quit and not go to races and allow just the rich run this sport also. It already has. Nascar 5 million min. to play there. For the week end warrior yep 720 cube motor on pump gas spun to 5500 built on a 6,000.00 alum block cool shit to and a $15,000 cage chassis and go like hell and dont even worry about hurting the motor. Add some turbo and 2000 hp easy Its all easy street you dont have to learn nothing. Iam sure glad that NHRA still has pro stock left and there should be smaller classes of pro stock to boot and bigger classes with no power adders. I think theres plenty of other power adder class . 8,00 are nothing now but still a respected number with no power adders. Yep the big Candy Store get your credit cards out the hell without knowing anything. The school system has already ROBBED the schools of most hands on shops auto shops are the last to go. Because of no knowledge alot of oem parts are being walked on but you can build a great motor on oem parts with knowledge but you have to learn about major groups of science before you can attemp that. You take Old School and combine that with todays parts and you got 1200 hp easy on racing gas without even trying with no power adders. Power adders = $$$$$$$$ still the rich end. But there here to stay because there easy to make power. But lets not lose site of knowledge, hey dont get me wrong there has to be knowledge in power adder motors also but in a diff. way.
To new Engine Builder you dont have to be 25 to be a punk all you have to do is act like one. Yes you have a nice history behine you keep it up and keep the book open.

Dont be scared to try something new ive been running springs all my life and know there limits from track knowledge .150 from coil bind will keep your pocket with a jingle and a steak on the table. You have to step up to the bigger springs which are stable and costly but worth the investment. Springs are like a pin on a Granade. and because of all the great new pistons materials and 4340 materials 4140 8620 9310 stuff a motor can survive some of these mishaps. Iam not saying everone has to do it this way but atleast have the knowledge of what your doing.
You still can,t trust anything out of the box looks nice.


Happy ThanksGiving To All Douglas

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Re: Pro Stock Pontica Heads #427 for BBC Valve Train System

Post by Tod74 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:19 pm

:^o Very old but was sorta funny to read.
THIS completely truthfull and accurate account of my horrible experience with a well known wheel company and their pitiful product, is only my opinion.
http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=6441

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Re: Pro Stock Pontica Heads #427 for BBC Valve Train System

Post by star393 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:45 pm

Tod74 wrote::^o Very old but was sorta funny to read.

Why funny please let me know what you think is funny, very old indeed but still people dont get it your in the box thinking, coil bind is God doesnt apply to all valve trains and combos and also quoted by spring manufactures as unused not very knowledgable with people and close to coil bind usage is in some appl. esp dragracing a bad set up. Now did you guys know all that info?? PAC also agrees with my findings of using the proper spring setup .140 away from coil bind as accurate information on a known margin of usability without harmonic surge problems in conjunction with the proper weighted valve train componets and spining bbc valve trains with steel valves way past 9000. So just maybe you dont know everything .

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Re:

Post by star393 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:02 pm

Warp Speed wrote:
star393 wrote:
there,s springs made right now to fit that need and willnot dance or slinky
You cannot take a spring and just make it taller to your liking YOUR CORRECT IN THINKING that a spring will bounce around when not installed within manufactures guide lines. The problem is thinking ahead before buying valves and planning this stage most people dont want to pay the exspence up front but they will later big time when them Hypertec pistons go boom when the valve hits it. The springs prices go up in $$ but pay first not later. They make springs that install at 2.300 and better almost 400 seat 1300 open .
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

TYPICAL example of your SILENT demented brain waves

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Re: Pro Stock Pontica Heads #427 for BBC Valve Train System

Post by Tod74 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:05 pm

What I found funny was the back and forth between you and the other posters.I never said anything about the info you posted about springs being inaccurate.I also didn't say or imply that I know everything.This is the internet...you can claim whatever you want... I couldn't care less. I did post the :^o because I think you are exagerating on your past accomplishments...but that's ok.I found the thread because I did a search on coil bind.
THIS completely truthfull and accurate account of my horrible experience with a well known wheel company and their pitiful product, is only my opinion.
http://forums.racingjunk.com/viewtopic.php?t=6441

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Re:

Post by star393 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:20 pm

af2 wrote:All BS aside!!! You're idea on springs will really mess someone up using the .200 above coil bind! I have to say it as others have that is wrong! I know you will beat the crap out of me but I don't really care!

I wish you the best! That is all I can do with you being the smartest in the bunch!
I hope you might listen and learn as many people have on this forum. :D

Well springs continued AR2 you and my buddy warp are my fav. buds. Hope you had a nice enjoyable holidays so break time is over back to the banjo and harmonica.

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Re: Pro Stock Pontica Heads #427 for BBC Valve Train System

Post by star393 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:48 pm

[quote="Tod74"]What I found funny was the back and forth between you and the other posters.I never said anything about the info you posted about springs being inaccurate.I also didn't say or imply that I know everything.This is the internet...you can claim whatever you want... I couldn't care less. I did post the :^o because I think you are exagerating on your past accomplishments...but that's ok.I found the thread because I did a search on coil bind.[

No sir i dint bullshit and i am not Exaggerating any of my claims. Pm sent to you Tod


Douglas

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