system 1 vs. paper filter

[shoedoos]

Found this.....

http://www.300cforums.com/forums/genera ... ected.html

[Dave Koehler]

The mesh screen can collapse...the pleats will suck together.......I have one for a Ford I can send you and show you what one can do.....oil pressure drop to zero in about 20 seconds? I keep it around just in case someone wants to try one. lol. The screens are metal.....and they will fatigue over time.

Sure would like to know the rest of the story on that one. Was someone trying to run 70 weight through a too fine screen? This is the first story I ever heard of anyone being able to destroy one.

[AA Performance]

Remember the old SB Chevy that had no oil filter & ran forever? If you dont build right then NO filter will help you.
We use the System 1 on everything we build, providing the customer will pay, including street & endurance stuff.
Make sure you use the right micron screen for your application.

[BlitzA64]

Remember the old SB Chevy that had no oil filter & ran forever? If you dont build right then NO filter will help you.
We use the System 1 on everything we build, providing the customer will pay, including street & endurance stuff.
Make sure you use the right micron screen for your application.

AMEN!!!!!!!!

[Vintrcr]

We use the System 1 on everything we build, providing the customer will pay, including street & endurance stuff.
Make sure you use the right micron screen for your application.

We are currently using the System 1 on an endurance AMC engine with no issues. The relief is blocked and we are using the 45 micron screen. Using 10W-30 synthetic, external pump, and a long oil path through a very large oil cooler, what are thoughts on changing to the 30 micron screen?

[900HP]

We are using the fine element on a dirt oval car with no issues whatsoever. Bearings look like new after 45-50 nights (1 season). Oil gets changed every 3-4 nights using Brad Penn 10w30 with an oil cooler. 8qts system capacity, engine is a 2bbl restricted so it runs 100% power most of the time. Oil temps run 240-250* with 180-190* coolant temp. The filter does a wonderful job of catching any debris and keeping it out of the engine. I don't know about the people that have had trouble with these as I've picked lint out of the element after engine break in on the dyno. Picked out a mustache hair one time, oops. Had cam bearings failing one time, caught it right away in the oil filter during inspection, didn't ruin anything other than cam bearings. I wouldnt' put an engine together without using one of these.

[jacksoni]

Former respected member here Ed Wilson ( Ed-Vanced engines) liked the PurePower filter. Similar to the System one it seems and same arguments I guess.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9542&hilit=purepower

[af2]

Remember the old SB Chevy that had no oil filter & ran forever? If you dont build right then NO filter will help you.
We use the System 1 on everything we build, providing the customer will pay, including street & endurance stuff.
Make sure you use the right micron screen for your application.

With all due respect those 265's didn't last long and that is why Chevy put a filter on mid year!!
It don't matter how good you build them, you will have crap in the oil.

[shoedoos]

Maxflow, I'd like to see pics of that collapsed System1 too.....

I have a System1 that collapsed as well. The mesh filter and the plastic inner-cage are permanently distorted like they had been trying to suck themselves inside out.. There's two trains of thought, first was the mesh was too fine for the oil weight - and the second was the engine was eating itself up and the filter couldn't cope. Before the filter took that 20-second dive like Maxflow mentioned, oil pressure was low but not fatal.

This was on a street/strip type BB Chev engine. Not sure about the filter being chicken or egg in the failure, but bearings, cam and lifters went along with the filter.

[MadBill]

There's probably a bit of "chicken or egg?" going on when the screen collapses. We had it happen on a Oberg flat filter in a dry sump engine that ate up some rod bearings. The debris blocked the filter and developed so much flow resistance that the screen blew out, allowing the crud to circulate freely.

[Piledriver]

People don't understand that a good synthetic media will have far LESS flow resistance, and have many times the surface area of any mesh filter.
...and can filter fine stuff the mesh filters cannot even dream of.

Oddly, oil flows quite differently through a mesh than it does a paper/synthetic media on a very fundamental level.
(had an engineer explain it to me once... only the "don't use mesh" part stuck. )

Mesh filters have one use--- Catch chunks for inspection on a motor you expect to die, so you know when...
Put a Mobil1 or WIX etc after the mesh if you use one at all.

Run FAR away from any mesh filter that advertises 5 micron filtration...

[Cashflow]

An interesting discussion to say the least. I have been debating the merits of switching to a Trufilter mesh over my current Canton (CM) filter. The elements for the Canton are pretty expensive and I'm not too fond of how they seal the ends with silicone since I run alky. I have been resealing them with Marine-Tex epoxy. They do however filter all the oil with no bypass.

I never really cared for the System One or the Oberg having run both in the past. They both had a bypass and I'm not sure I like that idea on a race engine. I like the Canton since it is smaller and I am cramped for space. The System One is a pain to remove and I hated the lines with the Oberg.

The Trufilter is available with a magnetic plug in place of the bypass so it will filter all the oil. Planned on calling them today and discussing this subject. If I do I'll post what the manufacturer has to say.

[Dave Koehler]

Been using the system1s personally for many years. Mostly 20-50 oil. No alarming issues yet but this thread got me to thinking.

In the beginning (ominous thunder roll) we did not have spin on filters for the Chevies. On injected nitro cars I used the steel chevy canister with drop in filter. No issues with 60 wt pennzoil. I eventually used the 2 qt steel version. These were originally used on Checker cabs and some trucks as I recall.

Later when spin-ons came along I used the 2 qt PF932 AC filter. Also use it on my truck. No issues either that I can recall and again it was 60wt stuff. I see that Wix has this filter available (51794R) with no bypass where I believe the AC has a bypass and perhaps even a ADB. I might have to revisit the spin-on.

I still have one of those chevy 2 qt steel canisters on the shelf and all this got me to thinking about giving it a try again. No bypass, drop in cartridge. Only issue is finding the appropriate block adapter or making one. I suppose I could even get carried away and carve out an aluminum version of the canister.

All in all if I can't find a flow, improved filtration, or financial advantage to the drop in canister deal or spin on there wouldn't be much reason to not keep using the system1 would there? Your thoughts?

[JoePorting]

I always read these posts about people having problems with oil filter calapsing etc, and I wonder if they all had the stock bypass blocked. Many people think I'm stupid for running a stock bypass, but I've never had problems with any oil filter. For those who think a stock bypass allows dirty oil to go through all the time, if your filter is clean, then the bypass is closed. The only time the bypass is open is when there's a pressure difference between the oil going into the filter and the oil coming out. In a worse case senerio, I think letting dirty oil in a motor is better then losing the oil filter element. I believe every automotive engine in the world has an oil filter bypass valve. There's a reason for it. Every automotive lubrication engineer in the world can't be stupid.

[s/c 266]

That's all I run and let's get some facts out. Nobody has any facts about the being the root cause of a failed engine. Many racers use them, like myself for over a decade and run lots of hard runs. I have see O rings left out or in wrong and other stupid stuff cause issues.

Make sure you ask the for the 30 or 35 micron element.