I was told that the plung cut you see on the ID of the
exhaust side guide came from Caterpillar Engineers a long
time ago. On one of their new design motors I believe
with a Turbo on first start up they were sticking ex
valves. The rest is history!
Brian B.
Dakota Parts Warehouse
Valve Guides
Moderator: Team
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bsfc9
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Guest
maxracesoftware,
Maybe I have been up too long today, but I am having trouble picturing you spiraling the guides. Do you center up on the guide and feed a reamer down at a set rate on your seat & guide machine? Or am I making that whole operation sound harder than it is?
I too am interested in the Pioneer part. We use liners in everything, and even take the Dart Iron Eagle head, remove the factory brass guides, then install .500 OD cast guides, then ream for liners. Sounds like alot of work but other than the beforementioned exhaust guide problems, we really have great luck with that procedure. Though it would be nice to simplify it with the Pioneer part you are introducing to us. Off to find some online info on it (if possible).
great feedback guys, and thanks to Don... this is a quality forum... hopefully it remains "troll-free".
RedRacer
Maybe I have been up too long today, but I am having trouble picturing you spiraling the guides. Do you center up on the guide and feed a reamer down at a set rate on your seat & guide machine? Or am I making that whole operation sound harder than it is?
I too am interested in the Pioneer part. We use liners in everything, and even take the Dart Iron Eagle head, remove the factory brass guides, then install .500 OD cast guides, then ream for liners. Sounds like alot of work but other than the beforementioned exhaust guide problems, we really have great luck with that procedure. Though it would be nice to simplify it with the Pioneer part you are introducing to us. Off to find some online info on it (if possible).
great feedback guys, and thanks to Don... this is a quality forum... hopefully it remains "troll-free".
RedRacer
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Guest
i'm just using the "Spiraler" that comes in the KLine red-plastic kit box
i'm setup to do it with HeadShop, but just easier and quicker just to Spiral with 450 RPM 1 HP commercial 1/2 drill by hand on HeadShop table
here are few KLine numbers for solid .500" steel casing with Phosphor/Bronze liners ..just look for these numbers in KLine instead of Pioneer
KL6120A is for 5/16 ID, 1/2 OD, 2 3/8 long spiraled Phosphor/Bronze
KL6188 is for .373 ID , 1/2 OD, 2 3/8 long not spiraled
all the other Pioneer or KLine boxes in my Shop have missing part number labels, so just look up similar numbers in KLine along the lines of
KL6120A or KL6188 and find correct numbers for 11/32 stems in eith pre-Spiraled or Un-Spiraled
i'm setup to do it with HeadShop, but just easier and quicker just to Spiral with 450 RPM 1 HP commercial 1/2 drill by hand on HeadShop table
here are few KLine numbers for solid .500" steel casing with Phosphor/Bronze liners ..just look for these numbers in KLine instead of Pioneer
KL6120A is for 5/16 ID, 1/2 OD, 2 3/8 long spiraled Phosphor/Bronze
KL6188 is for .373 ID , 1/2 OD, 2 3/8 long not spiraled
all the other Pioneer or KLine boxes in my Shop have missing part number labels, so just look up similar numbers in KLine along the lines of
KL6120A or KL6188 and find correct numbers for 11/32 stems in eith pre-Spiraled or Un-Spiraled
Hello everyone! I'm really glad I found this forum. I can see there are a lot of machinists who hang out here and I'm absorbing the info here like a sponge. Great stuff! I used to be a machinist years ago so I have some experience boring and honing blocks, grinding valves, installing seats, cutting spring pockets, guide work etc. Not anywhere near the experience nor caliber of some of you guys though!
Getting back to the topic. I personally don't like K-liners. We often used K-liners if the guides were too far out to be knurled and every once in a while these K-lined heads would come back because of excessive oil consumption. When we looked at the heads we were suprised too see the K-liners already worn out after just a short time running. Our method was to ream the guide out, drive the K-liner in, trim the excess material, run the roller spiraling tool through, then hone to size. WD-40 was used for the reaming operation and whatever that dark oil that was in that Sunnen guide honing bench (my partner called it fish oil) was used for the spiraling and honing. I came to the conclusion that there are three things going on. First, the spirals allow oil to seep down through the guide. Second, these spirals reduce the load bearing surface area of the guide resulting in a faster wear rate. And three, whatever that material is, copper/brass, is just too damn soft and malleable. One of the other machinists mentioned that he liked cast iron guides better because they lasted longer. Sometimes we would get an occasional import head like a honda head come in. What I would always notice with these heads was that upon disassembly and inspection it was apparent that the guides needed no work at all. These heads use some kind of black, hardened valve guides. The valves too were hardened and black. I know there is a theory for using a soft material against a hard material to allow for contaminents to get lodged in the soft material (bearings for instance) but perhaps it's not such a good idea for valves and guides? It is no wonder that these import motors go for 200,000+ miles.
Getting back to the topic. I personally don't like K-liners. We often used K-liners if the guides were too far out to be knurled and every once in a while these K-lined heads would come back because of excessive oil consumption. When we looked at the heads we were suprised too see the K-liners already worn out after just a short time running. Our method was to ream the guide out, drive the K-liner in, trim the excess material, run the roller spiraling tool through, then hone to size. WD-40 was used for the reaming operation and whatever that dark oil that was in that Sunnen guide honing bench (my partner called it fish oil) was used for the spiraling and honing. I came to the conclusion that there are three things going on. First, the spirals allow oil to seep down through the guide. Second, these spirals reduce the load bearing surface area of the guide resulting in a faster wear rate. And three, whatever that material is, copper/brass, is just too damn soft and malleable. One of the other machinists mentioned that he liked cast iron guides better because they lasted longer. Sometimes we would get an occasional import head like a honda head come in. What I would always notice with these heads was that upon disassembly and inspection it was apparent that the guides needed no work at all. These heads use some kind of black, hardened valve guides. The valves too were hardened and black. I know there is a theory for using a soft material against a hard material to allow for contaminents to get lodged in the soft material (bearings for instance) but perhaps it's not such a good idea for valves and guides? It is no wonder that these import motors go for 200,000+ miles.