Formula A / 5000

[piston guy]

The tunnel port was a lousy head all around. Couple that with the horrible valve train and it was destined to fail. Ford had a ( never released) good tall port head but it was shot down for the tunnel port. In '67 Ford ran the "HD or GT40 head as it's most commonly called. It was AT BEST a 240 cfm intake flow head and good for "about" 450 hp max. For didn't have camshafts that would make any more power. The tunnel port got a little bit better in the cam dept but as I mentioned the heads were losers.
Chevrolet , on the other hand was quietly refining the same basic head they had been running ( fuelie version) since '61. They had all these years of solid racing information on what worked. ZERO durability problems. Proven 283 crank in a 4' bore block and it was an instant hit despite the "hot rodders" having bored 283 blocks to "301" for years. LOL Penske has never been one to settle for second place regardless on vehicle manufacturer or racing venue. That is a winner.

[140Air]

Chevrolet , on the other hand was quietly refining the same basic head they had been running ( fuelie version) since '61. They had all these years of solid racing information on what worked. ZERO durability problems.

Those heads were first designed in Aluminum for the 283 FI engine. They first saw light in iron for the '61 FI with 315hp. The Al versions never showed up until Jim Hall was given all Aluminum 327s to run in the USRRC, the precursor to the CanAm. As late as the early '70s some guys preferred the mid '60s 461X heads. I think it was Winston Cup racing that forced Chevy to update the classic SB heads.

[piston guy]

A couple of friends have al 283 heads with 1959 date codes on them. Hall wasn't the first to get them though he did get MANY special parts as we all know. I know he also ran some mag blocks he got from M/T.

[140Air]

A couple of friends have al 283 heads with 1959 date codes on them. Hall wasn't the first to get them though he did get MANY special parts as we all know. I know he also ran some mag blocks he got from M/T.

You mean the original Aluminum heads? I think the Al 327 blocks Hall got were produced for the Grand Sports and/or the cancelled '63 LeMans effort.

In an interview Hall said Hap Sharp noted that the torque was so strong they didn't need a transmission. Be that as it may, the freeing of the left foot by using a Powerglide allowed their flippable spoiler and variable incidence wings. Any disadvantage from the transmission was more than made up for by the aerodynamics. Hall mentioned it took F1 2 years to appreciate wings.

In those days nothing challenged the SBC except the BBC in road racing. This Chevy reign was only bested by the all-out effort by Porsche in the CanAm. The Formula Atlantic/5000 series were the tail end of this era. Talk about American Iron.

[lada ok]

Talk about American Iron.

Hadn't noticed !

just wondering if any chev powered cars have won or placed in the top three at the Le Mans 24 hour ?

[140Air]

Talk about American Iron.

Hadn't noticed !

just wondering if any chev powered cars have won or placed in the top three at the Le Mans 24 hour ?

Talking about "American Iron", which means US street engines adapted for racing, and meaning American..., so then I cross over to Ford and say a big YES, dominantly so.

Of course LeMans is not a big race in the minds of the American public. Wish it was. What NASCAR race has been won by say Audi, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, or ANY European engine? Why not? No interest?

In the era I am talking about, American iron were the world's most powerful engines. The TransAm races saw Camaros, Mustangs, Javalins, Firebirds skunking 911s on road courses despite the high buck, high quality operations run by the Porsche camp. The reason Porsche developed the 917 was because the CanAm, powered by American street engines, was the fastest road racing series in the world, eclipsing F1. To beat street engines, Porsche developed an extraordinary purpose-built astronomically priced pure racing engine. But, after evaluating the potential of American street engines, Porsche had in development an even more powerful version (some turbocharged US V8s had more hp than the 917).

Today's American Street Iron is the cheapest horsepower that can be found and if you want it, the most horsepower that can be found. Cheap Nukes.

*Fine print: "American Iron" includes American Aluminum

[piston guy]

A couple of friends have al 283 heads with 1959 date codes on them. Hall wasn't the first to get them though he did get MANY special parts as we all know. I know he also ran some mag blocks he got from M/T.

You mean the original Aluminum heads? I think the Al 327 blocks Hall got were produced for the Grand Sports and/or the cancelled '63 LeMans effort.

In an interview Hall said Hap Sharp noted that the torque was so strong they didn't need a transmission. Be that as it may, the freeing of the left foot by using a Powerglide allowed their flippable spoiler and variable incidence wings. Any disadvantage from the transmission was more than made up for by the aerodynamics. Hall mentioned it took F1 2 years to appreciate wings.

In those days nothing challenged the SBC except the BBC in road racing. This Chevy reign was only bested by the all-out effort by Porsche in the CanAm. The Formula Atlantic/5000 series were the tail end of this era. Talk about American Iron.

Yes "original" 1959 aluminum 283 heads. The outer header bolts are angled so they are easy to spot. A couple of my friends are into "O" numbered parts. The Al blocks Hall got were versions of the '63 Gran Sport blocks for sure.

[lada ok]

Talk about American Iron.

Hadn't noticed !

just wondering if any chev powered cars have won or placed in the top three at the Le Mans 24 hour ?

Talking about "American Iron", which means US street engines adapted for racing, and meaning American..., so then I cross over to Ford and say a big YES, dominantly so.

Of course LeMans is not a big race in the minds of the American public. Wish it was. What NASCAR race has been won by say Audi, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, or ANY European engine? Why not? No interest?

In the era I am talking about, American iron were the world's most powerful engines. The TransAm races saw Camaros, Mustangs, Javalins, Firebirds skunking 911s on road courses despite the high buck, high quality operations run by the Porsche camp. The reason Porsche developed the 917 was because the CanAm, powered by American street engines, was the fastest road racing series in the world, eclipsing F1. To beat street engines, Porsche developed an extraordinary purpose-built astronomically priced pure racing engine. But, after evaluating the potential of American street engines, Porsche had in development an even more powerful version (some turbocharged US V8s had more hp than the 917).

Today's American Street Iron is the cheapest horsepower that can be found and if you want it, the most horsepower that can be found. Cheap Nukes.

*Fine print: "American Iron" includes American Aluminum

I've never read such myopic, one eyed, biased dribble for a long time. ... where do you get this ' street engine bull s... from ? The chevs were special factory all aluminium 8 lt, ! The CANAM cars were fast, probably faster than an F1 of the day which were running at the 2.5 lt formula !! Porsche entered a ' rehashed ' 5lt le Man car as an advertising ploy and bloody nearly took out the championship @1st go

Then you've got the gall to compare your metal hulks with 4x the engine capacity to a shitty old 911 on a road coarse with NO corners lol

" Today's American Street Iron is the cheapest horsepower that can be found and if you want it, the most horsepower that can be found. Cheap Nukes." .........// pull ya head out a the sand, your in dreamland sonny

but what's really annoying is that mostly you talk sense !

[MadBill]

Somebody missed taking his happy pills this morning!

[Kenova]

Somebody missed taking his happy pills this morning!

I took Mine!!

Ken

[140Air]

Talk about American Iron.

Hadn't noticed !

"...pull ya head out a the sand..."

... where do you get this ' street engine bull s... from ? The chevs were special factory all aluminium 8 lt, ! The CANAM cars were fast, probably faster than an F1 of the day which were running at the 2.5 lt formula !! Porsche entered a ' rehashed ' 5lt le Man car as an advertising ploy and bloody nearly took out the championship @1st go

The CanAm was an unlimited series. The most common engine was an iron or Aluminum block pushrod STREET V8 of up to about 8L. The modifications for racing included FI and minimal internal mods such as stronger rods on a stock crank. The Aluminum block Chevy was installed from the factory in Camaros and Chevelles. The block itself gave no horsepower advantage over the iron blocks. These were street engines modified for racing.
For the TransAm, the engines were originally as installed in showroom stock street cars with factory part numbers with all parts available either as installed on the showroom or dealer installable. For example, the Chevy 302 through 1967 and 1968 were homologated, stock. The factory tube headers came in the trunk of the car. The 1969 Cross Ram manifold with 2 4BBL carbs was available over the counter and dealer installable. This was a street engine.

Then you've got the gall to compare your metal hulks with 4x the engine capacity to a shitty old 911 on a road coarse with NO corners lol

To be fair, at 2L the 911s were in a lower class (and a lower weight) vs the 5L Chevys and Fords, but previously a common assumption in circulation was that American Pony Cars couldn't hold a candle to a Porsche on a road course. And the courses were most of best road courses in this country. NOT ovals. The Pony cars were completely dominant over the 911s. A 911 at the same weight as the Fords and Chevys, and with its rear grip advantage, would have needed about a little more than 3.5L to compete (maybe 450hp).

The late '60s LeMans dominating Ford 427 FE engines were basically their street engine with single 4BBL carb and common racing mods, such as dry sump and stronger internal components including a drilled crank. They were not as powerful as their NASCAR versions.
BTW, didn't that 5L Porsche lose at LeMans to a 4.9L PUSHROD Ford?

" Today's American Street Iron is the cheapest horsepower that can be found and if you want it, the most horsepower that can be found. Cheap Nukes." .........// pull ya head out a the sand, your in dreamland sonny

With the caveat that the definition of what is "streetable" would have to be decided on, there are cars running on the streets of America with over 1,000hp and that cost less than $20,000 to build. Engines that are useable for building these can be found in junk yards. This forum is full of guys who can tell us exactly how this can be done.

but what's really annoying is that mostly you talk sense !

Thanks.

Below is what I'm getting at.

[lada ok]

Somebody missed taking his happy pills this morning!

Yeah ! I had to main line this morning, but I slipped and missed the vein

Both lovely looking engines, ... you wouldn't want to get the mixture wrong on that street engine, all that lovely pipe work would turn blue

[Lockwire]

( The CanAm was an unlimited series. The most common engine was an iron or Aluminum block pushrod STREET V8 of up to about 8L. The modifications for racing included FI and minimal internal mods such as stronger rods on a stock crank. The Aluminum block Chevy was installed from the factory in Camaros and Chevelles. The block itself gave no horsepower advantage over the iron blocks. These were street engines modified for racing )


I think you need a word with someone like Gary Knutson so that you can correct the miss information. Pretty good street motors to make 1200.

[Lockwire]

( The CanAm was an unlimited series. The most common engine was an iron or Aluminum block pushrod STREET V8 of up to about 8L. The modifications for racing included FI and minimal internal mods such as stronger rods on a stock crank. The Aluminum block Chevy was installed from the factory in Camaros and Chevelles. The block itself gave no horsepower advantage over the iron blocks. These were street engines modified for racing )


I think you need a word with someone like Gary Knutson ( if he is still with us ) so that you can correct the miss information. Pretty good street motors to make 1200. [/quote]

[140Air]

I think you need a word with someone like Gary Knutson ( if he is still with us ) so that you can correct the miss information. Pretty good street motors to make 1200.

I'm all ears. What 1200?