Ever seen a lifter like this ???

[PackardV8]

I found these lifters in a Packard V8 some time back and I've never seen anything remotely like them or even half so complicated. They're .904".









Inside the body at the bottom, visible through the figure-8 hole is the fine thread cut inside, locating a fixed piece.

Also inside the body about one-third the way down, there's a tiny locating pin pressed in through a hole in the side of the body.

To further complicate things, the engine had adjustable pushrods, suggesting they aren't true hydraulic lifters.

Ever seen anything like this? Who made it and why?

[MadBill]

Here's my theory:
It's rudimentary hydraulic lifter conversion, which does not actually 'pump and hold' to eliminate lash as does a normal HL. One would adjust the lash as for a solid lifter while keeping the internal spring fully compressed and so when running, oil pressure would take up the lash thus reducing noise. As the lifter comes off the base circle, it collapses back to the designed solid lash.

Matter of fact, something like this might be ideal for aggressive solid rollers used on the street, where one theory says that their often short life is due to the stop/start roller action, as contact pressure is lost on the base circle...

[The Radius Kid]

Is this it?:

http://www.google.com/patents/US2818846

[PackardV8]

Yes, You found it! It's the same design principle; just different arrangement of parts.

Wonder who made/sold them? It's also by far the most complicated lifter to manufacture I've ever seen. A dozen small, critical parts to manufacture and assemble, with several extra machining operations.

I got lost in the pages of explanations and claims, but it was obviously a technological dead end. Sort of like the R-4360 four-row-28-cylinder Pratt & Whitney Wasp Major compound supercharged and turbocharged radial aircraft engines - a mechanical marvel, but too expensive, too complicated, too maintenance intensive to ever be practical.

[MadBill]

Wow, talk about a Rube Goldberg way of achieving the objective!

Per my second paragraph though, an instant leakdown, short travel hydraulic might still be just the ticket for durability with aggressive roller profiles on the street..

[Kevin Johnson]

Column 3, lines 38 through 47 reveals the assumption that the oil supply is not and/or never aerated.

The modified version deletes the annular ring supplying continuous communication with the oil supply. It appears aimed to supply a probability of partial filling and subsequent draining across 16 tappets which would also tend to decrease the average volume demand on the oil pump and generally raise the system pressure. As the rpms increase, so does the rotational rate of the lifter and rate of communication with the oil supply. Perhaps this was also a mechanical approach by a third party to achieve mechanical variable duration.

The author held numerous patents for many different automotive systems and other systems. He appeared successful enough in these endeavors to span a lifetime. I am assuming that he licensed many of the designs.

Google needs to correct the OCR that assigns co-authorship of several of his patents to a cross street in his physical address. This is one small example of why you should download the pdf and look at the original document.

[The Radius Kid]

" In both embodiments of the present `invention the inertia hammer is carried on the dependingjfcylindrical. stem integral with the primaryv driving cup-'shaped lele, Each .timethe .engine cam lobe raises and ylowers the tappet unit, the free-floating weight moves up and down respectively, inside the hollow of the outer body member, a pin projecting from the stem and a curved (helical) slot provided in the lower end wall of the weight form a one-way working connection therebetween for imparting a twisting motion to the weight. This twisting action carries through directly to the screw via the friction clutch means (first embodiment) or indirectly to the screw via the ratchet one-way clutch means thence to the friction clutch means (second embodiment) from the energized torsional spring, to turn it and automatically lengthen the tappet assembly to adjust to any changes necessary in the valve-actuating system resulting from wear between the parts thereof, the changes required 'as a result of thermal conditions of the engine are compensated for by modulation of the operating clearance mechanism. The twisting action imparted by the weight is in the same direction for both embodiments, but in the modified structure the screw is elevated in a direction opposite to the twisting movement of the weight to energize the spring, by the unwinding action of the energized torsional power spring.

It is `another important object to achieve the general object of the invention by the provision of an inertia hammer member having a free twisting movement in an upward direction, and an operative twisting movement in a downward direction responsive to the reciprocable motion of the tappet unit."

Lot's of verbosity here.

[crumple]

From reading the patent text it would appear that the "weight" with the helical slot in it uses the inertia from shuttling up and down within the lifter body as the lifter travels in it's bore to impart a rotational force to the threaded adjuster through a "rachet" thus compensating for slack in the valve train.

[Kevin Johnson]

Lot's of verbosity here.

Inasmuch as the aforesaid connections and coupling means do not form a part of the present invention, further description and illustration thereof will be omitted in the present application, except where reference to the same is necessary to a clear understanding of the present invention.

I cannot imagine where he might have picked that up from.

[dieselgeek]

Wow, that's cool!

Saw the title of this post and *knew* I would not be disappointed.

[lada ok]

I don't think this designer had the KISS principle in mind !

Is this a rebuild ? ..... be interesting to have it running .... I guess you have to reset the threaded portion to ' zero ', then adjust the push rods to ' ? ' lash, better a bit loose than tight.

[140Air]

Matter of fact, something like this might be ideal for aggressive solid rollers used on the street, where one theory says that their often short life is due to the stop/start roller action, as contact pressure is lost on the base circle...

BIll, "stop/start" roller action? This is an interesting theory somewhat analogous to the "fuel pooling" at the back of the valve conception in wet flow. If the roller is rolling, stopping requires an interval of time. Same with pooling. When does it get the time for that?... unless it is on the verge of seizing and the friction can stop it in milliseconds. It means you can't spin it with your finger. Do high speed films show the roller stopping?

[MadBill]

Matter of fact, something like this might be ideal for aggressive solid rollers used on the street, where one theory says that their often short life is due to the stop/start roller action, as contact pressure is lost on the base circle...

BIll, "stop/start" roller action? This is an interesting theory somewhat analogous to the "fuel pooling" at the back of the valve conception in wet flow. If the roller is rolling, stopping requires an interval of time. Same with pooling. When does it get the time for that?... unless it is on the verge of seizing and the friction can stop it in milliseconds. It means you can't spin it with your finger. Do high speed films show the roller stopping?

You must have missed the several long and acrimonious S/T threads on the subject, 140. Here's one: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33928&p=409912&hili ... et#p409912, As I said, it's one theory, but others abound...

[Schurkey]

The "cutaway engine" diagram in the patent application sure looks like Buick Nailhead to me.

I presume this is an "aftermarket" lifter, not installed by Packard???

[PackardV8]

The "cutaway engine" diagram in the patent application sure looks like Buick Nailhead to me.

I presume this is an "aftermarket" lifter, not installed by Packard???

Yes, the patent application used a Buick nailhead as the illustration. They had a history of lifter clicking.

No, it wasn't an OEM Packard install, but Packard V8s also had a history of lifter clatter from low oil pressure, so some SoCal owner gave these a try.

Wish I could find some info on who manufactured and sold them.