18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

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Strange Magic
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by Strange Magic »

Look at a NHRA Super Stock style engine. 172cc port, 65cc exhaust port, area limited, but still make power high and use a TON of lift.
Just like I mentioned in my post.
I use larger lifts in smaller cylinder heads when in relation to the pump size
900HP
Take a 400 inch small block with an 18 degree head and 15.1 compression with the cylinder head flow values nearing 365 to 370 at .850 lift, backed by a power glide in a 2800 pound camaro for arguments sake, and shove the following camshafts into it with just a lift change and tell me what you got when you pick up your time slip and look at your 60ft, 1320 et and 1320 mph.


Cam 1
111lsa
277/289
.845 int
.775 exh

Cam 2
111 lsa
277/289
.765
.730

How much would you like to wager, that no matter how much you manipulate gear and converter, that cam number 2 will go down the race track faster than cam number one. I am just looking for the wager amount and nothing more.
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by Orr89rocz »

Strange Magic wrote:
Look at a NHRA Super Stock style engine. 172cc port, 65cc exhaust port, area limited, but still make power high and use a TON of lift.
Just like I mentioned in my post.
I use larger lifts in smaller cylinder heads when in relation to the pump size
900HP
Take a 400 inch small block with an 18 degree head and 15.1 compression with the cylinder head flow values nearing 365 to 370 at .850 lift, backed by a power glide in a 2800 pound camaro for arguments sake, and shove the following camshafts into it with just a lift change and tell me what you got when you pick up your time slip and look at your 60ft, 1320 et and 1320 mph.


Cam 1
111lsa
277/289
.845 int
.775 exh

Cam 2
111 lsa
277/289
.765
.730

How much would you like to wager, that no matter how much you manipulate gear and converter, that cam number 2 will go down the race track faster than cam number one. I am just looking for the wager amount and nothing more.
Same cam but just changing rocker ratio to get those lifts?
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by 900HP »

Strange Magic wrote:How much would you like to wager, that no matter how much you manipulate gear and converter, that cam number 2 will go down the race track faster than cam number one. I am just looking for the wager amount and nothing more.
$0.00

Not anywhere near enough information.

And this still have nothing to do with velocity which is what you were saying lift alters.
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by wyrmrider »

Ton of lift but a ton of rpm and high maintenance
victims of circumstances
not a way to go unless you have to
You can have similar area as max lift if you roll the nose over and not stress the valvetrain
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by Warp Speed »

wyrmrider wrote:Ton of lift but a ton of rpm and high maintenance
victims of circumstances
not a way to go unless you have to
You can have similar area as max lift if you roll the nose over and not stress the valvetrain

What is "max lift", and how is it figured?
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by Warp Speed »

Strange Magic wrote:
Look at a NHRA Super Stock style engine. 172cc port, 65cc exhaust port, area limited, but still make power high and use a TON of lift.
Just like I mentioned in my post.
I use larger lifts in smaller cylinder heads when in relation to the pump size
900HP
Take a 400 inch small block with an 18 degree head and 15.1 compression with the cylinder head flow values nearing 365 to 370 at .850 lift, backed by a power glide in a 2800 pound camaro for arguments sake, and shove the following camshafts into it with just a lift change and tell me what you got when you pick up your time slip and look at your 60ft, 1320 et and 1320 mph.


Cam 1
111lsa
277/289
.845 int
.775 exh

Cam 2
111 lsa
277/289
.765
.730

How much would you like to wager, that no matter how much you manipulate gear and converter, that cam number 2 will go down the race track faster than cam number one. I am just looking for the wager amount and nothing more.
I would go with #1, and fix whatever else is wrong in the combo that is keeping it from performing its best!
And probably go up in ex. lift also! :wink:
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by CamKing »

Warp Speed wrote: I would go with #1, and fix whatever else is wrong in the combo that is keeping it from performing its best!
And probably go up in ex. lift also! :wink:
=D> =D> =D>

And as for those that don't think you'd see a 20-30hp gain from a camshaft change, we make a cam for a 604 crate engine that is the same lift, and same duration at .020", .050", .100", .200", and .300", and same LSA. It picks up 10hp, every time. That's about a 2.5% increase from a cam that measure identical. 20-30hp from a 4-8 degree change in a 800+hp engine is nothing out of the ordinary.
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by wyrmrider »

What I was going to say about the two cams is (without profiling)
IF the big cam can use the same valve springs and revs like a SOB then why not give it a shot?
My mindset- which may be wrong- is that the smaller cam may be easier on the valvetrain or rev better
would have to give both a shot- but then I'm from the "wheelbarrow full of cams" (and headers) era like Jere Stahl used to do
I go back to when there were only regrinds and 480 lift was big
as lifts continue to ratchet up I know I am behind the curve for what's behind done especially in heads up classes
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by Strange Magic »

How are those powerglides working out in those cup cars warp?

My apologies for leaving out the color of the engine, so with that said, lets consider it orange.
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by wyrmrider »

Saw an Orange Buick Nailhead the other day
My dad would not have taken that kindly
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by Warp Speed »

Strange Magic wrote:How are those powerglides working out in those cup cars warp?

My apologies for leaving out the color of the engine, so with that said, lets consider it orange.

I'll let you in on a little secret........they don't have powerglides! LOL
Maybe what your trying to say is that you can get away with more lift on a Cup type application, or anything with 4+ gears than you can with a glide?!?
You do realize there are only a few tracks on the circuit that we actually shift after a restart?
But thinking about it, Pocono would be similar to running a glide, as we use 2 gears there. I guess we should lower our lift .100 and we would go faster there huh?!? LOL (especially on that exhaust side) :lol:

What does valve lift only have to do with the transmission!?!
You think by increasing the velocity at the valve by reducing lift, you are creating a stronger signal at the booster?
My thoughts on the #1 cam still hold................. :wink:
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by jmarkaudio »

I would think if the smaller lift made more average power then you are putting a bandaid on another problem in your engine. And don't confuse booster signal, it's easy to have more booster signal by using better boosters than most carbs use unless the carb is class restricted to mods you can do. The annular boosters I use add about 10" H2O at 20.45 depression over any .500 ID booster, and gain up to 10 CFM airflow per hole. Hot swapping without changing the bench depression setting drops the depression due to increased airflow, yet the signal is still better than the standard booster.
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by Strange Magic »

jmarkaudio, I do not use junk carburetors by any means, and a matter of fact the same carb builder and builders have their stuff on the engines that qualify as well as win in the pro categories. Just say'n

Warp, go build something for drag backed by a glide, which is what 98 to 99 percent of the weekend drag cars have throughout the country and let us know how you make out with those big lift sticks that parallel max head flow lift cfm's. The last time I had checked, this topic was regarding a small block drag race engine with a glide. You might not know this warp, but the majority of the 1320's elapsed time is actually how fast you can run to the 330, of which you have to pull that ride from a dead stop, shift a gear at the 120ft and haul the rest of the 1200 or 540 feet if your eighth mile racing, in high gear. If you can't come off a 1400-1500 gear change, than your number you put up on the dyno will have you scratching your head as to why your one real nice peak hp figure has your junk running like it's down 60 or more hp in an application that is between 750 to 900 hp, and it will be down even more when you calculate the et and mph when the peak hp number is even higher via a larger engine. Here is another fact warp. In drag racing your on track operating time, which is based upon how fast you can accelerate, all takes place typically in less than 10 seconds, and not once has the drag race industry seen a quest to get from 0 to 660 or from 0 to 1320 in more elapsed time than the year prior. It's quite identical to cup racing :roll:

You don't have to believe anything I say, but I do know that many, many of second hand cup heads, especially sb 2.2's and others have made their way into drag racing and ARE NOT IMPRESSIVE AT ALL, and I would make the same statement if drag heads and logic was applied to cup racing.
I would think if the smaller lift made more average power then you are putting a bandaid on another problem in your engine.
You determine how well your piece is doing based upon how it fairs against others of it's kind, and when your able to out perform, on the race track the vast majority of others during an event, than you base your logic applied from that and not from some computer program, and not from a dyno exclusively.

If you took the consensus based upon what the majority preach on the internet and what is published in books, than you would have one slow and problematic piece.
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by jmarkaudio »

Strange Magic wrote:jmarkaudio, I do not use junk carburetors by any means, and a matter of fact the same carb builder and builders have their stuff on the engines that qualify as well as win in the pro categories. Just say'n
Measure the booster hole size in the carbs that have annular boosters, and those that have down legs. .500 or less are not the best for annulars, under about .430 for down legs. I use .560 to .640 depending on how much fuel channel they need for annulars, .450 for DL boosters. All are custom.
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Re: 18º 434 SBC Dyno Results

Post by Strange Magic »

I am not talking about collector size, and i'm not talking about dampers, and i'm not talking about crankshaft manufactures and I am not talking about carburetors in this discussion.

I am talking about max valve lift and how you base your maximum valve lift upon when plotting out an engine design for a specific purpose. That purpose being drag race and a powerglide transmission. In this topic, this engine is a drag race engine with a powerglide transmission. It is not a comp eliminator drag race application with a pro-flight and it is not a comp eliminator or pro category application with 5 gears. It is also not a cup application either of which does not use a powerglide transmission.

If you want to match your valve lift with your cylinder heads highest lift flow figures, than be my guest if it makes you happy. You are not going to convince me to support this ideology.
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