F250/Ford 400 build

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cjperformance
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by cjperformance »

ProPower engines wrote:
wyrmrider wrote:High energy is a chevy master
extreme energy is for Ford
edm lifters?
Isky way obsolete
Supercam measures duration at a different than comp and Megacam is different yet again
the isky seat duration is longer than it looks compared to comp
pretty easy on the action so they do run forever and that is important for many
remember that this is a long rod engine so there is more dwell around TDC therefore overlap acts like there is more than meets the eye - so keep it down
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43417

those ports are plenty big, casket matching a big waste of time
scribe around the bores and open up around the valves would be a better use of your time, blend the bowls durabond hard seats
headers good- what about the rest of the exhaust?

The Mega cam is too much for the stock 400 been there but for something that is just for work the 256/262 is the best I ever found.
Tried the comp stuff and it never lasted or preformed as well as the Isky stuff did.And that was before the oil changed now I would not even consider a comp FT cam.
The stock 400 cam is ~256/272 & works great with headers and extra C/R from 0 deck
Craig.
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by My427stang »

cjperformance wrote:The 400 has around .060" piston/deck.
For a real basic but gutsy build just deck the block to get 0 deck to pump the comp up. No fancy pistons etc required.
Rebuild the stock heads, light bowl/ssr work, basic springs and a cam to suit whatever exhaust it runs, eddy performer intake, 600/650vac carb. They are an easy engine to make into a tow demon.
Why cut so much block away if you could buy a piston? .060 seems like a hell of a cut

http://www.tmeyerinc.com/product-p/kb2347.htm

Got some options then too with head choice
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by cjperformance »

My427stang wrote:
cjperformance wrote:The 400 has around .060" piston/deck.
For a real basic but gutsy build just deck the block to get 0 deck to pump the comp up. No fancy pistons etc required.
Rebuild the stock heads, light bowl/ssr work, basic springs and a cam to suit whatever exhaust it runs, eddy performer intake, 600/650vac carb. They are an easy engine to make into a tow demon.
Why cut so much block away if you could buy a piston? .060 seems like a hell of a cut

http://www.tmeyerinc.com/product-p/kb2347.htm

Got some options then too with head choice
Fantastic piston! Thankyou for that link- i never knew they were available.
Buy those pistons, just clean up deck the block. Perfect!
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by PackardV8 »

I'd like to be around 400hp and as much torque as possible, as it'll be in a 4wd F250 mainly used for pulling trailers and feeding round bales in the winter. I've never spun it over 4500 rpm and that was when racing my friend's big diesels. ;) I'd like to have torque down at idle. 55mph is ~2500 rpm. Torque is more important than horsepower.
Well, that ain't gonna happen. Got to choose one or the other. On an antique carb/distributor/fixed cam engine, either torque at idle won't be there or one-horse-per-cube won't be there. Choose one or the other.

You've gotten good advice on how to build a budget truck engine and on the street through the mufflers you'll never know it doesn't make 400 horsepower.
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by Pinhead »

cjperformance wrote:The 400 has around .060" piston/deck.
For a real basic but gutsy build just deck the block to get 0 deck to pump the comp up. No fancy pistons etc required.
Rebuild the stock heads, light bowl/ssr work, basic springs and a cam to suit whatever exhaust it runs, eddy performer intake, 600/650vac carb. They are an easy engine to make into a tow demon.
The last thing I want to do is make a ping-mobile; the '71 is already >9:1 CR and 0-decking the block with the factory 75.6cc heads brings the CR up to 10.3:1 which seems pretty high for open-chamber heads. With quench-chamber heads I'd consider 10:1 fairly safe but I doubt the ability of the open chamber heads to prevent detonation, especially with the type of work the engine will be doing (heavy towing).

Which is why I'm simply looking to replace the cam.

I have considered using the closed-chamber Australian 2v heads but I fear the CR will be too high combined with the 400's wide deck clearance. Chamber Edging, Surface Turbulence valves, and Singh Grooves could help but I doubt those changes could tame an 11:1 engine while towing.
cjperformance wrote:What exhaust specs will you run! That will be the cam decider. Easy to make tq with 4" stroke, but easy to use the wrong cam and kill tq with wrong cam v's exhaust system.
cjperformance wrote:Do you/will you run stock exhaust manifolds on this?
I'll either be running some "shorty" headers or I'll have a set of fenderwell-exit headers welded up.
PackardV8 wrote:
I'd like to be around 400hp and as much torque as possible, as it'll be in a 4wd F250 mainly used for pulling trailers and feeding round bales in the winter. I've never spun it over 4500 rpm and that was when racing my friend's big diesels. ;) I'd like to have torque down at idle. 55mph is ~2500 rpm. Torque is more important than horsepower.
Well, that ain't gonna happen. Got to choose one or the other. On an antique carb/distributor/fixed cam engine, either torque at idle won't be there or one-horse-per-cube won't be there. Choose one or the other.

You've gotten good advice on how to build a budget truck engine and on the street through the mufflers you'll never know it doesn't make 400 horsepower.
So what you're saying is the author of Hot Rod article I posted is full of **it, as they claimed "375-plus lb-ft of torque at slightly more than 2,000 rpm."
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by ProPower engines »

cjperformance wrote:
ProPower engines wrote:
wyrmrider wrote:High energy is a chevy master
extreme energy is for Ford
edm lifters?
Isky way obsolete
Supercam measures duration at a different than comp and Megacam is different yet again
the isky seat duration is longer than it looks compared to comp
pretty easy on the action so they do run forever and that is important for many
remember that this is a long rod engine so there is more dwell around TDC therefore overlap acts like there is more than meets the eye - so keep it down
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4341


The Mega cam is too much for the stock 400 been there but for something that is just for work the 256/262 is the best I ever found.
Tried the comp stuff and it never lasted or preformed as well as the Isky stuff did.And that was before the oil changed now I would not even consider a comp FT cam.
The stock 400 cam is ~256/272 & works great with headers and extra C/R from 0 deck
May be over there but I never seen the stock cam here with that much @50 or I would have just left them alone.

The OP does not want to do a build he just wants to add a new cam kit and touch up the heads on an otherwise good engine.

Those engines while they had their limitation by design with limited compression and horrible cylinder head design were a smog engine and never came stock with a 4bbl but there was limited aftermarket intakes available in their day to help but they still were not great compared to other engines but with a small amount of improvements they would make easy 400/450 but they were done at a lower rpm then any other engine
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by wyrmrider »

check the actual compression height on those pistons and make sure they are not "compensated"
I've used lots of Isky cams- just a heads up on how Isky gets advertised durations
by "long rod" I was comparing to SBF and SBC which most camgrinders optimize for not 351C
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by Bos's5.0 »

Just put a 460 in it's place. They have the same bellhousing.
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by Krooser »

Pinhead wrote:
wyrmrider wrote:why put a chevy cam in a ford if you want to open valves quickly etc???
Not sure what you mean.
wyrmrider wrote:open up the exhaust at least and headers- good idea
X2 on premium exhaust valves
I'll be using headers.
wyrmrider wrote:was that the engine masters 400 motor article- if not it's worth a read
there's more than you want to know in the porting 4vthread but some 2bbl tips if you want to read through it
Link?
wyrmrider wrote:I rebuilt my dad's 73 merc 400M pretty straightforeward it had a cruzo(whatever) not a C6
I did put lightly larger valves to get new seats
I don;t remember if I went 30 degree seat on the intake
I'll either be staying with the 4-speed or installing a 5-speed manual.
A Ford needs a different grind because of the lifters being a larger diameter than on the Chevy… makes a difference. Jim is saying the High Energy cams are based on using the smaller diameter Chevy lifter.

You might want to consider using a Q-Jet for carburetion. These are really good on low RPM applications.
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by Pinhead »

ProPower engines wrote:May be over there but I never seen the stock cam here with that much @50 or I would have just left them alone.

The OP does not want to do a build he just wants to add a new cam kit and touch up the heads on an otherwise good engine.
THIS.
Bos's5.0 wrote:Just put a 460 in it's place. They have the same bellhousing.
No. If I wanted a 460 I'd be driving a POS out of the '80s getting 6 mpg. This 400 regularly got 15 in my '79 F250 without doing any work to it.

Back to the OT: Since Xtreme Energy is the Ford cam... It looks like THIS cam is a better choice.
Xtreme Energy 32-242-4
Lobe Separation: 110°
ICL: 106°
Duration In/Ex: 262°/270°
Duration @ 0.050: 218°/224°
Valve Lift: .513/.52
Lobe Lift: .298/.301
Last edited by Pinhead on Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by Bos's5.0 »

Pinhead wrote:
ProPower engines wrote:May be over there but I never seen the stock cam here with that much @50 or I would have just left them alone.

The OP does not want to do a build he just wants to add a new cam kit and touch up the heads on an otherwise good engine.
THIS.
Bos's5.0 wrote:Just put a 460 in it's place. They have the same bellhousing.
No. If I wanted a 460 I'd be driving a POS out of the '80s getting 6 mpg. This 400 regularly got 15 in my '79 F250 without doing any work to it.
Comparing an 80's 460 to a early 70's 460 is a joke. 1970 429 eat any 400 you can build alive. 400 is a joke without MAJOR MAJOR workover.
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by Pinhead »

Bos's5.0 wrote:
Pinhead wrote:
ProPower engines wrote:May be over there but I never seen the stock cam here with that much @50 or I would have just left them alone.

The OP does not want to do a build he just wants to add a new cam kit and touch up the heads on an otherwise good engine.
THIS.
Bos's5.0 wrote:Just put a 460 in it's place. They have the same bellhousing.
No. If I wanted a 460 I'd be driving a POS out of the '80s getting 6 mpg. This 400 regularly got 15 in my '79 F250 without doing any work to it.
Comparing an 80's 460 to a early 70's 460 is a joke. 1970 429 eat any 400 you can build alive. 400 is a joke without MAJOR MAJOR workover.
And comparing any late-year 400 to the '71 400 is a joke.

The fact is, I HAVE a '71 400 but I don't have a '70 429. The only local options I have for 460s are in '80-up F-Series pickups which means the 460 isn't an option.
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by Bos's5.0 »

Pinhead wrote: And comparing any late-year 400 to the '71 400 is a joke.

The fact is, I HAVE a '71 400 but I don't have a '70 429. The only local options I have for 460s are in '80-up F-Series pickups which means the 460 isn't an option.
Fair enough.
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by wwmtlineman »

Someone was making adaptor plates at one time so you could use a std Cleveland intake on a 400M engine. I had light load pinging problems with mine. I forget what size allen wrench it is but it fits up inside the vacuum advance nipple on the distributer. If I recall right. backing it out takes advance out and vice versa. a 460 would have been Ok but when I built mine it had to run on any gas I could find traveling around the country. I would avoid the peanut port truck engines too
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Re: F250/Ford 400 build

Post by cjperformance »

The 400c cam duration i mentioned is not at .050 " !!! Its adv dur.

The intake adaptor plates to allow fitment of 351c intakes ar made by Price Motorsport, but you can buy an eddy performer 400 which will work fine for a tow engine.

Ah yes 71' 400 #-o my apology, i cant remember but they had a slightly shorter deck height and/or different piston crown volume? Please correct. So if you're at 9:1 and as Pro Power said you dont want to do a full build the leave it alone.

Yes the magazine article was right, you can get thise power levels out of the 400 but its not going to be as torquey down low or have any low rpm fuel economy any more.

Yes the OP could swap to a 460 but everything bar the bellhousing is different, a 460 will not 'just bolt in'.

Whatever you do, do a minor basic head bowl/ssr job , it will liven it up without hurting low end tq or economy. And if its a real tow machine, and you're using the shorty headers you will get best results from a baby dual pattern cam on 111/112 lsa.
Forget about the hp #'s- it will have plenty,,, concentrate on the low/mid tq- that will make it tow well, get good economy and move the heavy truck with ease.
Craig.
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