Volkswagen emissions scandal

[Leftcoaster]

I'll stay away from the politics, but anyone remember what the cities were like before emissions regulations were instated? And look at what they are like where emissions are not controlled?

An "inconvenient truth" Ken, along with, since the last Ice Age, unprecedented glacier regression, temperature spikes and extremes etc etc (google and choose your own "truth" depending on your, ah, perspective

Apologies to the OP, incidentally

[pcnsd]

Why are governments making choices that rightfully belong to the consumer. The government is always wrong and the consumer is always right. The marketplace will decide what is good or bad by the choices they make. A handful of government bureaucrats can't possibly match the collective insight of millions of consumers. What don't they understand?

Do you vote? Where were you when consumers voted for the government policies we have? We do have some sort of democracy... or was it that you were just out voted?

@140Air
Your argument confuses "Democracy" with "Liberty". Individual liberty will insure democratic institutions tempered by natural rights. Democracy just insures the tyranny of the masses who are easily manipulated by the governing class. I will argue those in all modern democracies are not free but rather born to one of the three major caste. In the US, we are either born Serfs of the government dependant class, Servants indentured to government for live (Working class) or members of the Governing class. There are no doubt sub-classes between the three major caste. We haven't been "free" in the same meaning that was used by our founders for several generations.

[kirkwoodken]

I think these statements describe how human nature obeys the laws of thermodynamics.
Law #1. You can't win!
Law #2. You can't break even.
Law #3. You can't get out of the game.

There is much wisdom in the "Peter Principle". "Any hierarchy exists solely for the benefit of the hierarchy." Pretty much explains all forms of government. In the past 3000 years, the Greeks have proven no known system of government works.

Pursig's Law: "For any given hypothesis, the number of rational solutions is infinite."

Unknown: "There is nothing the human mind cannot rationalize."

Off topic, but fits into my rational thinking scheme for this post.

[David Redszus]

Why are governments making choices that rightfully belong to the consumer. The government is always wrong and the consumer is always right. The marketplace will decide what is good or bad by the choices they make. A handful of government bureaucrats can't possibly match the collective insight of millions of consumers. What don't they understand?

Do you vote? Where were you when consumers voted for the government policies we have? We do have some sort of democracy... or was it that you were just out voted?

If only consumers could vote for (or against) the government policies we have. We cannot. We can only vote for pandering politicians who then fund an army of bureaucrats and regulators who make rules that are not even laws.
Regulation and limitation of choice has become a way of life and will continue until the system crashes like so many others before.

Freedom of choice is not the same as democracy; its much more important than mere democracy.

[Leftcoaster]

There is much wisdom in the "Peter Principle". "Any hierarchy exists solely for the benefit of the hierarchy." Pretty much explains all forms of government. In the past 3000 years, the Greeks have proven no known system of government works.

Pursig's Law: "For any given hypothesis, the number of rational solutions is infinite."

Unknown: "There is nothing the human mind cannot rationalize."

Ibid:

"No living organism, neither amoeba recoiling in the presence of acids, nor homo sapiens
Initiates or participates in an interaction unless motivated by a real or perceived advantage"

[David Redszus]

"No living organism, neither amoeba recoiling in the presence of acids, nor homo sapiens
Initiates or participates in an interaction unless motivated by a real or perceived advantage"

In normal peoplespeak, we could say that humans are motivated by fear or greed, or both.

[MadBill]

Where does sex fit in?

[Kevin Johnson]

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.engli ... /1.2549687

Are Opel dealers modyfing the software of polluting Zafiras?

VRT News has discovered that since November official Opel dealers have been modifying polluting software in one of the Opel models. This is the case with the Zafira-Tourer 2014 series with a 1.6 diesel engine. The software enhances the performance of the cars, but at the same time also increases nitrogen oxide emissions to levels several hundred percent above the permitted European norms. Dealers are now changing the packet in question making the cars less polluting. During our investigation we established that the reason for the upgrade was hidden from Zafira owners. The operation started shortly after the Dieselgate scandal erupted in Europe. (Reporter: Luc Pauwels. VRT's investigation was conducted with support from the Pascal Decroos Fund for Investigative Journalism.)

[mk e]

CA just rejected VWs plan to fix the cars
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/12/californ ... -plan.html

"The state said VW's proposed fix was not adequate or fast enough, and that it would continue its investigation as well as talks with VW to find a fix."

[pamotorman]

CA just rejected VWs plan to fix the cars
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/12/californ ... -plan.html

"The state said VW's proposed fix was not adequate or fast enough, and that it would continue its investigation as well as talks with VW to find a fix."

since the owners are still driving the cars the longer the state waits more pollution will be in the air. it is a power play by the state hoping to collect more $$$ in fines

[Leftcoaster]

Hmm, wonder who holds all the cards in this game of strip poker?

[adam728]

Not adequate or fast enough? Rejecting it will make things happen faster?


On another forum users in California are finding they are not allowed to renew the registration on their affected VW's. The way I understand it is if there is a recall or fix you must have it done before reg. renewal. But someone decided that even though no fix is yet available the cars should not be about to re-register. Popular rumor is that it's a power play to get owners a lot more pissed off at VW and pressure them to move faster or do a bigger fix (say retrofit UREA and really drop emissions instead of try and skirt by with just tuning changes).

[twl]

It appears that the fed and state gov'ts have been reduced to nothing more than cheap shakedown artists and protection racket operators, along with their primary function as Ponzi schemers.
They seem to have found their true callings.

[Leftcoaster]

The fed and state gov'ts have been reduced to their primary function as Ponzi schemers

There! Fixed it for you