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What Cylinder head epoxy.........to epoxy heads to block?

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What Cylinder head epoxy.........to epoxy heads to block?

Postby Guest » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:28 pm

I've been working on a Dodge 3.9L V-6 for an IMCA modified and just got it running. It was bored and stroked to 300ci and to do that the original cylinders were totally bored out and 4.25id thickwall sleeves were installed. Since there is no 4.25 bore Dodge head gasket available especially with offset front and back cylinders, I made my own copper head gaskets from A110 .043 copper sheet. They leaked even with spray on head gasket sealer from Gasket works. .003 flat o-rings from Gasketworks sealed the engine enough to run a few dyno tests. The engine made 440hp @ 6000RPM (not the peak yet) so potential is there. I sent the copper gaskets to Cometic but they replied today they are unable to make composition gaskets for this freak of an engine. What in the world can I do to get the heads sealed to the block?? I've got a few ideas left and JB welding the heads on is one of them. Any others??
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I thought I was logged in....

Postby putztastics » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:38 pm

I think I am logged in.
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seal gaskets

Postby LAMB » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:48 pm

ihave used sodium silicate numerous times with great success i would try that before i did anything like epoxy its cheap and ive had great luck with it
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epoxy

Postby Dave Koehler » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:58 am

Hi,
Epoxy... uh no. I can only see that as a bigger problem.

I assume your problem is with the water jackets and not a compression leak issue.

On copper head gaskets with water jacketed blocks I use a thin film of silicone around each hole. By thin, I mean real paper thin. Put it on your finger and spread it around the hole, both sides. A lumpy job will actually make matters worse.

This might be a little old fashioned but I warm the engine up real well without water and then retorque the heads. Then let it cool down to room temp and recheck the torque. Then add water.

I also religiously use the Moroso Ceramic seal on water jacketed engines. Works well. Just follow the instructions to the letter.

For compression seal I oring the block and use a receiver groove in the head.

Hope this helps
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Postby J-Rod » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:14 am

The fire ring would be an issue you would need to overcome, but you can buy sheet gasket material just like what you find on a graphite composite head gasket. If you can't get cometic, then perhaps someone who specializes in odd gaskets like Egge who makes a lot of obsolete parts might be able to help.

I agree that dead soft copper needs a bit of help sealing (like an RTV of some sort around the water jackets).
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Postby Grocerius Maximus » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:45 pm

I gotta ask- Why all the trouble for a claimer engine?

You wanna screw the guy that buys it there's lots of things you can do and not get caught.
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Postby Guest » Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:49 pm

"Why all the trouble?" If that's what everyone thought, you'd still be racing model T's.
Hope you find a fix Jesse. Dave
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Postby putztastics » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:22 am

I'm so sick of this engine I HOPE someone claims it.

Can you re-use a copper head gasket if it's used with O-rings?
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Postby Grocerius Maximus » Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:58 am

Anonymous wrote:"Why all the trouble?" If that's what everyone thought, you'd still be racing model T's.
Hope you find a fix Jesse. Dave


IMCA modified Sir. You finish in the top 4 your motor can get bought for $525.00. The good engine gets saved for the big money races. You'll see a lot of junk in weekly races. Cracked blocks with 5 different bore sizes, 3 different types of pistons, a crank with 4 different journal sizes etc. Claim rule forces economy.
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Postby putztastics » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:53 pm

You won't be in the top four with junk around here even in the weekly races.

Guys are spending $4500 for claimer Wissota street engines and lots more on the Mod engines.

We are very polite, nice people here in ND and have a great respect for other people's property.
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Postby brett w » Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:08 pm

Call your local CAT dealership and get the same stuff that they use to glue heads on blocks. Some diesel engines use metal to metal contact instead of a traditional gasket. This stuff will be very hard to get loose once you have applied it and it has set but it should solve your problem.
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Postby putztastics » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:50 pm

Thanks for all the replies.

Anyway I got the engine running again. The cylinders got o-ringed and I sealed the head gasket around the outside with a small bead of Ultra Gold RTV. The combustion chambers are sealed now but there still was a major coolant leak into the oil. Pulled the intake, it wasn't coming from the heads. Pulled the pan and it's leaking coolant along the bottom of the cylinder sleeves. The block got about a 3/4 fill, I never thought coolant would leak through the block fill.

So I might try Ceramic Seal or that sodium silicate - isn't that the stuff water well drillers use to seal wells?

Happy Holidays to all.
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Postby bill jones » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:59 pm

-Here's a deal that works.
-I have used Loctite and a spray cleaner to seep into and clean the joint and if I can I like to get a vacuum then I use a thin blue or green loctite and swab it on with a Q-tip.
-I've had two PCV screw together sprinkler joint that decided to leak thru the threads the second year after it was installed.
-I got access to the joint, just let it dry for several days and then swabbed the loctite the same way and let it set for a day, swabbed it again and finally tried'm and they both have been leakfree ever since.
-I had something like a parting line crack at the crest of a short turn on a set of cast iron heads, put a vacuum on it and sucked some loctite into it and no further leaks
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Postby putztastics » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:50 am

Just when I think I'm not worthy to even post here along comes a suggestion from Bill - loctite and vacuum!

I've "been there - done that" on a 2003 Engine Masters entry though not with loctite, we used JB Weld. The moparts.com EM470 had MP Stage 6 heads with the ports extensively modified. I was doing the preliminary "dyno work", (it ended up being about 90% fixing). Anyway an intake port started leaking water so we cleaned it up with carb cleaner, mixed up JB Weld, applied a vacuum to the cooling system and sucked the JB into the crack. It was left to sit overnight to cure but the next morning the JB was still gooey. What in the world?? Well there was carb cleaner still sitting on top of the closed intake valve - the carb cleaner fumes prevented the JB from curing. A little heat applied with quartz lights and propane torches accelerated the cure. It didn't leak and still doesn't as far as I know.

I think this V-6 now needs a water jacket sealer of some type. I haven't used one yet because I think I don't want the sealer in the dyno cooling system. I have a pressurized cooling system with tube and shell heat exchangers. Maybe that wouldn't be a problem, it would work good to do it on the dyno as I can circulate and heat the coolant without running the engine. That way I could leave the oil pan off and verify the coolant has stopped leaking.
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Postby la360 » Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:10 pm

I take it you got the Carb sorted out on the V6 Jesse? This is the W2 headed V6 you were playing with , right??
AL....
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