Missmatched combo performing very well?

[cjperformance]

If you know him can you ask him if he can mod the pipes? - boys have been sending them to gonzo, but his time frames are kinda like mine

Yeah Mike runs R&D at paceys.Getting them to mod the pipes may be tough,they will supply them unwelded if you need to tweek for room but modding them is no what they usually do, that said I can ask. If there is enough demand then they may consider it. If its just collector cut, bigger collector and a bolt up flange welded on they need?, I can do that to them. I do the Falcon tri ys - cut off the 2.25 collector back to 2.5 then step out to 3, they work better like that with a full system than just going straight to 3".

[KnightEngines]

Nah, needs the secondaries stepped up in tube size as well as the 3" collectors.
If it was just collectors then I got a 5" grinder & a TIG.

If he does R&D then tell him guys will buy pipes made like that no problem - he'll sell a bunch.

Maybe I'll call him.

[cjperformance]

Nah, needs the secondaries stepped up in tube size as well as the 3" collectors.
If it was just collectors then I got a 5" grinder & a TIG.

If he does R&D then tell him guys will buy pipes made like that no problem - he'll sell a bunch.

Maybe I'll call him.

Ah no probs! I'll text you Mikes number. Would be great if you had a set already modded that he could set on their jig. Hopefully they decide to do something with them.

[cjperformance]

Is it PH5002 (1-3/4" x 2" x 2.25 ) pipes that you're using mate?

[peejay]

I would of changed gears at 6300RPM based on the engine dyno result " 6500RPM ----429.0FtIb---530.9Bhp " maybe run faster again. BUT
the header change stuffs things up.

As Gary said, what one is planning on running on the vehicle should be run on the engine dyno.
Definitely exhaust can kill the power as we all are aware. be nice to run back to back headers on a
chassis dyno but a lot of work just to prove one point of the puzzle

What was the E85 A/F ratio set on the dyno for wide open throttle ?
Does the car run a bonnet scoop of some sort ?
Did they run a A/F ratio meter at the track ?
What results did you get when you plugged all the details in PipeMax for engine combination.

Shift that engine at 6300 !?
And miss out on the continuing top end?

Yeah, I'd wonder how well it'd run shifting at 8000+ if you had the stones to run the engine that high...

[1mach]

I would of changed gears at 6300RPM based on the engine dyno result " 6500RPM ----429.0FtIb---530.9Bhp " maybe run faster again. BUT
the header change stuffs things up.

As Gary said, what one is planning on running on the vehicle should be run on the engine dyno.
Definitely exhaust can kill the power as we all are aware. be nice to run back to back headers on a
chassis dyno but a lot of work just to prove one point of the puzzle

What was the E85 A/F ratio set on the dyno for wide open throttle ?
Does the car run a bonnet scoop of some sort ?
Did they run a A/F ratio meter at the track ?
What results did you get when you plugged all the details in PipeMax for engine combination.

Shift that engine at 6300 !?
And miss out on the continuing top end?

Yes at 6300rpm do a shift by the time you eyes see tacho at 6300RPM and by the time you pull the lever of the gear shift 200RPM has laps. The dyno figures suggest it peaks torque & Bhp at 6500RPM then nose dives this is time the car isn't accelerating lost ET's. Thats why I'm very supicious of the dyno results and still question that on off power twin peaks????

I'm only going by what information you have posted as far as dyno spreadsheet. If you ever get a chance running your own car down the quarter mile when changing gears if a 3 speed take your foot off the accelerator partially and then accelerate wide open 3 times down the quarter and tell me what the times will be . Cause that's what the engine dyno spreadsheet is suggesting to me. Power comes on and the backs off and comes on . It is a slight hesitation as if he has a flat spot in the running of the engine and on the tract that must be happening three times not once as it is engine dyno pulled.

In one of my posts I asked what is he crossing the line in top gear to see if he is getting the correct RPM to rear gear ratio. The nose of the car has to be up in the air for a good time and MPH.

You already said it has a small camshaft as per the heads capable flow figures at mcsa 2.45"@300CFM+ that's why it is RPM max'ing at 7750 but horsepower is taking a big hit 6500----429.0---530.9 minus 7750----351.3---518.4 = LOST TQ & BHp 429.0 - 351.3 = 77.7ftlb and 530.9 - 518.4 = 12.5Bhp . With two TQ and BHp peaks between the two RPM's.

I'm only going by the numbers give to me and those engine dyno figures are still really questionable and very suspicious and tell a different story ??? We all view things differently to me it tells me his over revving the engine for that camshaft ????? but yet the power comes back up???? WHY????

[1mach]

I would of changed gears at 6300RPM based on the engine dyno result " 6500RPM ----429.0FtIb---530.9Bhp " maybe run faster again. BUT
the header change stuffs things up.

As Gary said, what one is planning on running on the vehicle should be run on the engine dyno.
Definitely exhaust can kill the power as we all are aware. be nice to run back to back headers on a
chassis dyno but a lot of work just to prove one point of the puzzle

What was the E85 A/F ratio set on the dyno for wide open throttle ?
Does the car run a bonnet scoop of some sort ?
Did they run a A/F ratio meter at the track ?
What results did you get when you plugged all the details in PipeMax for engine combination.

Shift that engine at 6300 !?
And miss out on the continuing top end?

Yeah, I'd wonder how well it'd run shifting at 8000+ if you had the stones to run the engine that high...

To take this engine to 8000RPM is a whole new ball game changer.

Firstly it isn't making power at 8000RPM needs camshaft change. Are we going to see three peaks of TQ & BHp ?

Would be a awesome sight to see if all the combo was correctly setup.

[peejay]

Dyno chart suggests that it would make as much or more power at 8000 than 5000. When it comes to shift points, the torque number is irrelevant.

I take a scientific approach to shift points... you can theory this and theory that, but you won't know unless you try and take notes. I had one engine that made peak power at 6000 have the best shift point at 7700rpm, didn't know that until I experimented with higher and lower and followed the trend. Current engine's peak HP is around 8500-8800 or so but best times are shifting at a tick past 10. Mostly because I'm freaked out by the mass of spinning metal next to my ankles, I like being able to walk! Kept getting quicker and quicker the higher I went, there's more in the car but not in me!

Of course I do have the luxury of having three good dragstrips within an hour of here, and I could probably get ten-fifteen runs per week in after work on weekday test-n-tune nights if I wanted to. So lots of opportunity to experiment.

[1mach]

Peejay are we talking about KnightEngines's thread posted engine??? or is this your engine ? or is KnightEngines your engine we are discussing? And yes the peak TQ and BHp is very coincidental ????? I'm not basing it on TQ? We all know TQ drops off and BHp continues to rise with RPM. I'm in the drag racing fraternity since 1982.


RPM_____ftlb_____BHp
3750----384.2---274.3
4000----405.2---308.6
4250----416.0---336.6
4500----419.2---359.2
4750----425.0---384.4
5000----430.0---409.4
5250----431.6---431.4
5500----426.8---447.0
5750----423.5---463.7
6000----425.3---485.9
6250----437.3---520.4
6500----429.0---530.9
6750----408.4---524.9
7000----394.6---525.9
7250----382.7---528.3
7500----371.4---530.4
7750----351.3---518.4

[KnightEngines]

This motor has seen 8300rpm in the past, but not intentionally!

It's good for 8500 no problem, oiling system & bearing clearances are set up to allow it & the bottom end is stuffed full of good gear, it'll go there when it gets the solid roller it was built for, but for now I can't see much point turning it past 7800.

Power comes back up after the 1st peak due to it hitting another harmonic 'tuned' point - most likely the differing runner lengths in the intake, but possibly the tri-y headers offering 2 tuning points (that's why most high end race engines use tri-y pipes, more than 1 tuning point = broader power curve).
It can still make power at high rpm despite the small cam coz the heads & intake are freaking huge for a 355 cube engine making around 550hp.
The heads & intake are capable of 650+hp, even with limited lift & duration they still flow enough to feed the engine air for 500+hp at close on 8000rpm.

Craig - I'd have to check the part nu, but those sizes are correct for the pipes on the 137mph engine.

Now if I could get those 2 customers to agree to take the pipes & carb from the VN & stick them on the engine in the VK we'd have something quite special - a full weight VK Calais capable of doing cruise nights, driving to & from the track & running 9's at 140mph.

[KnightEngines]

To add fuel to the fire here is the dyno sheet from another street/strip 355 I built late last year, VT iron heads, harrop intake, 11.8:1 comp, 264/268 on 109 solid flat tappet cam, 1.7 rockers & about .630" lift.
Runs on pump swill, headers are custom tri-y.

This motor was built from the start to run a SFT cam, heads are sized accordingly & it runs a smaller intake with an 850 carb.

Different dyno, but both dyno owners agree that their dyno's read pretty damn close to each other.

You may notice this one also has 2 power peaks & holds the power for a very long time.

This motor is in a lighter car (around 2800 lb - for the aussies that know what I'm talking about it lives in an LX torrie hatch), it was supposed to debut at the same race meet but the owner managed to hurt himself pretty good at work & couldn't run.

[1mach]

KnightEngines I'm not questioning your workmanship nor the capabilities of this engine. But without certain changes, taking it well over 8000rpm at his stage is futile. AS you said.

Maybe exhausted could shed some light on the topic ????

[KnightEngines]

Yeah, I'm well aware that turning it to 8000 is pointless, just saying with the right cam the rest of the motor is capable of going there.

[peejay]

Peejay are we talking about KnightEngines's thread posted engine??? or is this your engine ? or is KnightEngines your engine we are discussing? And yes the peak TQ and BHp is very coincidental ????? I'm not basing it on TQ? We all know TQ drops off and BHp continues to rise with RPM. I'm in the drag racing fraternity since 1982.


RPM_____ftlb_____BHp
3750----384.2---274.3
4000----405.2---308.6
4250----416.0---336.6
4500----419.2---359.2
4750----425.0---384.4
5000----430.0---409.4
5250----431.6---431.4
5500----426.8---447.0
5750----423.5---463.7
6000----425.3---485.9
6250----437.3---520.4
6500----429.0---530.9
6750----408.4---524.9
7000----394.6---525.9
7250----382.7---528.3
7500----371.4---530.4
7750----351.3---518.4

Looking at that, assuming an automatic with 2.45/1.45/1.0 gears and a maybe too tight converter so we won't be taking into account riding the converter after a shift, shift at 7500 and the revs drop to about 4500 1-2 and 5000 2-3, HP drops from 530 to 359 1-2 and 409 2-3 after the shift.

If the engine even drops to 500hp at 8000, it gets pulled down to 4750 1-2 and 5500 2-3... HP after the shift drops to 384 1-2 and 447 2-3.

So in this case even 8000 is shifting too early... any time you have more HP before than after the shift, you're shifting too early, period!

Now if it had a looser converter so it never dropped below 6000 or so, then we're talking...

[1mach]

KnightEngines"]To add fuel to the fire here is the dyno sheet from another street/strip 355 I built late last year, VT iron heads, harrop intake, 11.8:1 comp, 264/268 on 109 solid flat tappet cam, 1.7 rockers & about .630" lift.
Runs on pump swill, headers are custom tri-y.

Certianly more fuel on the fire, certianly my little brain is thinking.

RPM-----TQ-------BHp
5800---467.5----516.3
5900---466.3----523.8
6000---467.0----533.6
6100---467.8----543.4
6200---468.1----552.5 ***** max TQ
6300---466.3----559.3
6400---463.9----565.3
6500---459.9----569.2
6600---452.5----568.7
7200---424.7----582.3 ***** 1st max BHp
7300---417.7----580.5
7400---410.6----578.5
7500---405.0----578.3
7600---401.2----580.6 ***** 2nd Max BHp
7700---391.9----574.6
7800---383.4----569.4
7863---376.7----563.9

Only 400 RPM difference between the peak BHp this time as opposed to 1000 RPM on the original engine the conversation is about.

Maybe nitro2 "TFX intake/exhaust pressure waves tuning software " lend a hand in his vast knowledge and experience could shed some light on the secondary BHP peaks occuring but nitro2 is very secretive about giving a straight forward answer from the posts i have read?

Technically we should be seeing this phenomenon on all dyno spreadsheets and graphs to a certain degree that it is obvious?