Rolls Royce 4L F head - block machining?

[KnightEngines]

Got one of these things in, 4 litre 6 cylinder F head engine (1967), Exhaust valves in the block, intakes in the head.
Got a problem, block face needs machining but apparently you cannot remove the head studs from the block - can anyone confirm this & offer any suggestions?

The rest looks quite doable, but if I can't deck the block it's pointless doing anything else.

[MotionMachine]

One option. Also, the early Rolls and Bentley's that I have bored had extremely hard blocks, it takes softer stones to get any material out and to get any valley depth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7N2IRYKKkM

[wyrmrider]

EDM the studs?

[KnightEngines]

Block is alloy, studs are a foot long & go right down into the mains area.

Even the factory service manual supplied by the owner states very clearly that the head studs must not be removed under any circumstances.

I don't know why, but at this point I guess I'll take their word for it - customer has another block, he's gonna bring that down & we'll see if it's any better.

The deck face itself looks to be serviceable, but the sleeves have dropped & the head gasket needs to partially seal on the sleeve tops.
An option to explore if the other block is also no good is potentially resleeving the block with flange top liners carefully machined flush with the deck.

Yeah, great.

[cjperformance]

How wide is the sleeve at the deck?
How far have the sleeves dropped?
Any chance you can o'ring the block to get proper seal.
Or have a gead gasket made with an inbuilt o'ring.

[KnightEngines]

Sleeves have dropped .002-.010", can't get a head gasket made - F head, like 1/2 a sidevalve.

Not gonna think too hard just yet, I'll wait & see what the other block is like, then think harder if I have to LOL.

[The Radius Kid]

Block is alloy, studs are a foot long & go right down into the mains area.
Even the factory service manual supplied by the owner states very clearly that the head studs must not be removed under any circumstances.

Interesting.
Why not?

[cjperformance]

Sleeves have dropped .002-.010", can't get a head gasket made - F head, like 1/2 a sidevalve.

Not gonna think too hard just yet, I'll wait & see what the other block is like, then think harder if I have to LOL.

Ah oh course- like the horrid old land rover F head engine! I wasnt thinking about that when suggesting o rings!. Bugger.
Im wondering if Rolls just dont want the studs removed due to them not trusting a correct refit procedure? Interesting.
Hopefully the next block is ok but id think that an ally block with long studs right thru it is going to be really prone to pushing the sleeves down with time/heat cycles. Fingers crossed!

[KnightEngines]

Interesting.
Why not?

That's the big question!
I suspect it's simply that they are utter bastards to get out & the chance of busting one off & junking the block are pretty high!

[cjperformance]

Interesting.
Why not?

That's the big question!
I suspect it's simply that they are utter bastards to get out & the chance of busting one off & junking the block are pretty high!

[The Radius Kid]

I'd be curious to know how they're anchored in the first place?

[Tuner]

Could be cast in place with a big square head, or something like that. Can you R & R the sleeves? Some old Limey knows what's going on with this.

[clshore]

Warerjet is surely capable of cutting copper rings the size of the sleeve.
Can even have them cut from different thickness to suit depth of each sleeve.
Question is, how long until/if the sleeves sink more?

[KnightEngines]

Had a win with this, customer had another block, it's been in the weather so he disregarded it - bores have a bit of surface rust, it had water in the sump etc.

Was a right prick to pull down, seized & crusty as, but I got it apart after a few hours worth of swearing.
Deck is good, sleeves have not dropped & bores came up 'good enough' with a bit of an exploratory hone.

A bonus came in the form of what appears to be virtually new bearings, someone fed it some bearings not long before it fell into disuse, which is real handy coz you can't buy bearings for these & have to adapt bearings from other engines to work.

The down side is this thing is a mess, many hours in cleaning this crap up, exhaust valves & guides are shot to hell, pistons are corroded up pretty good & rings rusted in etc.
Fortunately I have 2x other engines to rob bits from & make one good one, unfortunately they take a long time to pull down to the point where I can get another set of pistons out.
Customer supplied a gasket set & set of rings & that looks to be all I'm gonna need in the way of parts to build it, just a whole lot of labour time!

[Tuner]

An ultrasonic cleaner and an ounce or two of this to a gallon of water will rescue rusted and corroded parts. Some horrible looking things will come back to new or almost new appearance.

Zep RUST ERASER PROD.# M995

http://www.zep.com/ZepSearch/default1.a ... &country=U

It only comes in a 5 gal. pail, but it is economical to use because you dilute it so much to use in the ultrasonic (1 or 2 oz. per gal. H2O) because the ultrasound cavitation in the water does the work. You can just put water in the tank and do small parts in a concentrated solution by putting them in a plastic bag to isolate the concentrate.