AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

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amcenthusiast
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AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:37 pm

443inst1c.JPG
Hello everyone, -thought y'all might enjoy viewing and discussing 'something different'.

Yes this is about a '64 2bbl 327 junkyard core that has been reworked to make a 443 CID Rambler V8 racing engine.

The total cost for this engine build was around $4000, doing most of the work myself.

Considering the potential of any engine's cylinder heads to be it's limiting factor for higher performance modifications, the whole decision to build this engine is based upon the surprising similarity of '56-'67 AM Rambler V8 heads to '49-'67 Cadillac V8 heads.

Where Cadillac bored and stroked their V8 up to 429 CID, AMC never developed their engine past 327 CID, but the intake and exhaust port sizes appear to be very similar, judging 'by eye', looking at both cylinder head designs side by side.

The cylinder heads tend to prove this is a low buck engine build; I'm too poor to afford having them flow bench tested, but they are 'home ported' and use 'heavy' 3/8" stem size valves.

Moreover, I was able to cut my own oversize valves by using a homemade benchtop lathe, which was necessary in order to make the stroker pistons.

The motivation to fabricate my own lathe was based upon cost of having a machine shop rework the piston wrist pin size.

I figured if a machine shop charges $60 hr, to have them ream all eight pistons and rods would cost anywhere from $600 to $800, it wouldn't be stupid to investigate the cost of buying or making tools to do that job myself.

(for that price, one might as well have a set of custom pistons made, but I could not afford it.)

So I studied wrist pin reaming methods and tooling & decided to make my own specialized lathe.

The 'clincher' in my mind was 'even if I'm unsuccessful, and fail to make a lathe good enough to ream new wrist pin bores, I'd nevertheless wind up having a small lathe to do other less precise small jobs anyway. ...so I decided to 'go for it'.

Thanks to Speed Talk Forum discussions about wrist pin clearances, I learned I needed to have a lathe with less than .0005" runout.

Hence, to make a long story short, the need for making my own lathe with less than .0005" runout in order to do my own custom wrist pin bores became the ultimate challenge.

The old saying 'necessity is the mother of invention', in this case, becomes true all over again.

That was a rather climactic moment when I was able to measure .0003" runout on the end of an eight inch 'straight' chucked in a lathe made from scrap parts for less than $250.

Impossible?

Here are pictures of my homemade benchtop lathe, which uses a decommissioned 2.73 to 1 AMC pinion gear for it's spindle, drilling a piston and reaming a connecting rod small end wrist pin bore:

[img]
drillpistonwristpin.JPG
[/img]

piston album link: https://goo.gl/photos/BrhgR5LWPJa1MrxS7

[img]
reamrod.JPG
[/img]

connecting rod album link: https://goo.gl/photos/THx85EWLEMnYTq4q8

I'm hoping this doesn't break any Speed Talk Forum rules and everyone here will be able to enjoy the various attributes of this particular engine design more than it's inherent advertising for me as a niche market maker of custom Rambler V8 race parts.

If this topic is ok to post here, I have much more info and pictures to share.

Thank you Speed Talk Forum for this opportunity to show and tell about my favorite V8 engine.
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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by psychomotors » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:26 pm

I personally think it's a pretty cool looking engine. Please tell me that isn't copper fuel line though. I almost lost an engine/car due to the copper oil line snapping off. Anyways, I looked at the photos and am impressed. What were the stock bore and stroke compared to the new? I love the intake too. Please give more info on the combo .
Last edited by psychomotors on Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by mag2555 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:46 pm

So are the valves still 3/8 stems?
The headers don't look like fun, atleast from the angle of that picture!

What is the stroke?

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by hpetew » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:27 pm

Psychomotors is right on both counts, that's a cool motor and that copper fuel line will crack much sooner than you'd think.

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by pamotorman » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:42 pm

very nice. reminds me of the jigs and fixtures I made to machine race engine parts back in the 60s and 70s.

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by amcenthusiast » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:40 pm

Ahh, thank you all for the open reception here on Speed Talk Forum.

Oh yeah, a cracked gas line would be terrible. -The copper fuel line was just made from scraps I had laying around. I know NHRA rules state 'no more than 12" total' ? for rubber line so that'd have to be changed also. I'll consider switching to steel and adding a support bracket to resist vibration. Thank you for the warning.

Back to the engine build story, I wanted to explain how I did the pistons and rods in order to tell how I made custom oversize valves using the benchtop lathe; I used inexpensive cut down stock valves made for '73-'91 AMC 360/401. Since they are same 3/8" stem size as stock Rambler V8 valves, this saved time and money not having to install new guides ...leaving smaller stems and bronze guides as an option later on down the road.

So I was able to cut AMC 360/401 (2.02 int. 1.65" ex) down to 1.95" int. & 1.60" ex. sizes using the homemade lathe.

This is because stock '56-'67 Rambler V8 heads have a slightly more narrow stem to stem distance than the later '66-'91 AM V8s, which was originally done for the first 250 CID version of this engine back in '56 for the 3 1/2" bore size.

...in order to use larger valves in a stock Rambler V8 head, I'd need to make offset guides, cut new valve spring seats and use location cups because the spring seats are not level with that area of the head.

I made my own valve seat grinding pilot using the lathe also, to use Kwik Way seat grinding stones, to hog out the stock valve seat sizes from 1.78" int. & 1.42" ex. to the new 1.95" int. & 1.60" head sizes.

If I said 'it was easy' I'd be liar; redoing the valve seats 'the old school way' was a ton of work. + since I had no idea of how the combustion chambers would look, I went at it slowly, not wanting to ruin my best pair of virgin heads.

I took lots of pictures while doing the heads because there is basically zero information on how to prepare a stock Rambler V8 head for 'race duty'. (huh?)

For now, here's a link to the picture album made to show most of the work done:

https://goo.gl/photos/XVqeJs9muKcYsbn49

Since the heads are 'the major hang up' to hot rodding this engine, I think I should show pictures of porting, combustion chambers and valve springs here.

If anything, discussion of the porting work and chamber shape etc might be entertaining by their contrast and comparison to other cylinder head designs.

We'll get around to discussion on external parts eventually?
XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by statsystems » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:57 pm

You didn't get any chatter with the valve hanging that far,out of the chuck?

Other than the siamese exhaust port the head and chamber don't look that bad for old OE stuff.

You are definately hard core. You should be proud.

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by jake197000 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:22 pm

ive found many times making fixtures/jigs is half the fun when doing a project.as long as time isnt a big factor.very nice job !

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by Carnut1 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:30 pm

I love this project! I actually built a very similar stone holder for a Black and Decker stone kit I bought that was forgotten from my local autoparts store. I welded a valve stem to a piece of threaded rod and made tapered nuts to hold the stones. I bet it runs real sweet. Nice job.

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by 2.2=8 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:51 am

That is true, genuine Hot rodding. Love that kind of stuff.What are you running for a cam?

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by ProPower engines » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:35 am

=D> =D> =D>
Awesome job!! Very well thought out for a super budget build in designing and building fixtures for machining you own parts as needed.

Since you have increased the displacement by over 100 inches I am curious what you did for the crank.

Also would like to know what the final bore size and stroke are.
What pistons were used??
we would all love to see more pic's of the intake you have as well.


Keep us informed on how it runs
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by Carnut1 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:10 am

Carnut1 wrote:I love this project! I actually built a very similar stone holder for a Black and Decker stone kit I bought that was forgotten from my local autoparts store. I welded a valve stem to a piece of threaded rod and made tapered nuts to hold the stones. I bet it runs real sweet. Nice job.
I should have included I was a teenager when I did this! I remember bringing the b&d stone kit home riding my bike.

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by cuisinartvette » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:26 am

grass roots stuff, excellent!! Keep the details coming!
Crank, cam, head pics give us the goods :mrgreen:

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by PackardV8 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:30 pm

Very good work on an obsolete engine. Fun to see another make.
I figured if a machine shop charges $60 hr, to have them ream all eight pistons and rods would cost anywhere from $600 to $800,
FWIW, most general machine shops around here would be $100 an hour for a small custom job, more if they'd really rather not be bothered. On the other hand, you went to a lot of work to re-invent the Tobin-Arp piston/rod boring machine. At a good automotive machine shop charging $10 a hole, you could have had your pistons and rods bored to your specs for $160.
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Re: AMC 327 - 443 CID Rambler V8

Post by psychomotors » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Considering the age, the chambers look a lot like modern castings. Still curios as to the bore and stroke. Apparently , you are a lot like DV , in that you want to feed us a little at a time ,lol. :lol:
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