Larry, Maxracesoftware

shawn · Post by **shawn** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:08 pm

hello,
I saw on one other post that you use a vertical mill for you cylinder head seat and guide work. What do you use for a head fixture? Is it something that you built or bought?Do you use it for surfacing too, or do you use a regular surfacer for that operation. I looked on your site hoping to catch a peek at it, but didn't see any pics on it there. Great site, by the way. Wonderful pics.
thanks,
Shawn

Post by **maxracesoftware** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:42 am

I saw on one other post that you use a vertical mill for you cylinder head seat and guide work. What do you use for a head fixture? Is it something that you built or bought?Do you use it for surfacing too, or do you use a regular surfacer for that operation. I looked on your site hoping to catch a peek at it, but didn't see any pics on it there. thanks, --Shawn

Shawn..its a "Top-Secret Fixture"

its just the top part of my Storm-Vulcan 85BE milling machine bolted to a Vertical Mill . Both that part and Head-adapter bar have been modified to
accept just about any Head on both the exhaust and intake sides.

i do just about all valve jobs with Head mounted on Exhaust side to the Fixture..just works better that way, lesser distance,less vibration.
it takes twice as long than a brand new Serdi i used to use, but the valve seats are overall more accurate than the Serdi...just takes experience and getting use to .

i have an air-float rollover fixture and Head Shop, but it won't cut the seats as accurate as what im using now.

Darin Morgan · Post by **Darin Morgan** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:44 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
I saw on one other post that you use a vertical mill for you cylinder head seat and guide work. What do you use for a head fixture? Is it something that you built or bought?Do you use it for surfacing too, or do you use a regular surfacer for that operation. I looked on your site hoping to catch a peek at it, but didn't see any pics on it there. thanks, --Shawn
Shawn..its a "Top-Secret Fixture"

its just the top part of my Storm-Vulcan 85BE milling machine bolted to a Vertical Mill . Both that part and Head-adapter bar have been modified to
accept just about any Head on both the exhaust and intake sides.

i do just about all valve jobs with Head mounted on Exhaust side to the Fixture..just works better that way, lesser distance,less vibration.
it takes twice as long than a brand new Serdi i used to use, but the valve seats are overall more accurate than the Serdi...just takes experience and getting use to .

i have an air-float rollover fixture and Head Shop, but it won't cut the seats as accurate as what im using now.

I saw a guy take a vertical mill and use an air float roll over table with the Serdi style live pilot cutters. I cut some seats on the thing and was impressed with it. I liked it better than the Serdi! A real nice FLAT air float table with a lock down is hard to beat in my book. Do you use the live pilot?

shawn · Post by **shawn** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:41 pm

Thanks for the response and input guys. I think Larry said he uses a non-live pilot on the other post.
Larry, does that type of fixture have the "cam" the rotates to adjust the cant on the head?If not, how would you adjust it for a canted valve head?
thanks again,
shawn

Post by **maxracesoftware** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:17 am

Thanks for the response and input guys. I think Larry said he uses a non-live pilot on the other post.
Larry, does that type of fixture have the "cam" the rotates to adjust the cant on the head?If not, how would you adjust it for a canted valve head?
thanks again,
shawn

The Pilot is fixed , not Live like Serdi.
the fixed-pilot allows you to "Stay in locked in place",
if you want to checkout valve seat depth and verify it exactly, you can drop in the valve and check depth without moving or changing your previous alignment..then go right back in and mill a thousandths or so more if need be, but very seldom needed !

i dead -level the Canted valve head lengthwise to the Table to within .000
then align the valve guide centerline to the Vertical Mill's axis by tilting the Head fixture in that plane, then titling the Vertical Mill's axis in alignment with the guide centerline in the other axis.

the Cyl Head is never setup tilted or canted "lengthwise"
its always dead -level to the table surface..and the Vertical Mill's Head is being tilted instead in that axis

the Vertical Mill's Spindle axis is aligned to the valve guide centerline by using a machined bar that slides into the R8 collet Ball-Drive 's hole tightly, then positioned over fixed pilot, and a tightly fitted , but free-fit sleeve drops over both that bar and the pilot ...alignment is made when the sleeve can be moved up and down freely and the easiest, table is locked, alignment bars/sleeve is removed, and seat is cut.

shawn · Post by **shawn** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:46 pm

That sounds like a pretty neat setup. Thanks for the info. on how you do that.I've been looking at different options for cutting seats and I think the having the versitility of a vertical mill would allow you to do anything you want, instead of having a machine that will only do cylinder heads. I can understand in a production shop, or one that does more than a few sets of heads a day, having a dedicated head machine. But for the do it yourself guy, or one that is much lower volume, I really think that the vertical is the way to go. It also sounds like once you get it dialed in, that the accuracy is there too.
thanks again,
shawn

Post by **maxracesoftware** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:02 pm

I think the having the versitility of a vertical mill would allow you to do anything you want, instead of having a machine that will only do cylinder heads.

thats the way i 1st looked at it !!!

but now it looks like i'll purchase another new Vertical Mill and be dedicated to Valve jobs or Cylinder Heads

Vertical Mills are the best machine -per-dollar wise
many options/tooling. DRO, etc
very cheap machines considering, capable of many various operations, not just dedicated to one task like other machines.

cboggs · Post by **cboggs** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:59 pm

Darin Morgan wrote:I saw a guy take a vertical mill and use an air float roll over table with the Serdi style live pilot cutters. I cut some seats on the thing and was impressed with it. I liked it better than the Serdi! A real nice FLAT air float table with a lock down is hard to beat in my book. Do you use the live pilot?

Darin,

Do you know what the air float table was on that machine, .. or were to get one??? I used a system like this at a shop I used to work at, .. realy nice to do valve jobs on. It had an air float table and a roll over fixture.
The fixture would tilt for canted valve heads, .. the machine head always stayed level, .. you just level the guide in the head.

Anyone know where to find this, .. I'd love to set one up as I'm finding
it difficult to get what I want out of my Serdi some times.

Curtis

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:26 am

Did any of you guys look at rottlers new machine at PRI i watched the guy cut a seat and the i asked him to put the gauge on it .0003 run out so i asked him to do another and it came out .0004 that is a dam accurate machine.The tooling can be used on other types i order it last week and will be trying it on my machine.I will post to let every one know if it improves my machine.

mike

Darin Morgan · Post by **Darin Morgan** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:17 am

cboggs wrote:
Darin Morgan wrote:I saw a guy take a vertical mill and use an air float roll over table with the Serdi style live pilot cutters. I cut some seats on the thing and was impressed with it. I liked it better than the Serdi! A real nice FLAT air float table with a lock down is hard to beat in my book. Do you use the live pilot?
Darin,

Do you know what the air float table was on that machine, .. or were to get one??? I used a system like this at a shop I used to work at, .. realy nice to do valve jobs on. It had an air float table and a roll over fixture.
The fixture would tilt for canted valve heads, .. the machine head always stayed level, .. you just level the guide in the head.

Anyone know where to find this, .. I'd love to set one up as I'm finding
it difficult to get what I want out of my Serdi some times.

Curtis

It was a hand built unit. The table was precision ground ( very important ) and very large. Everything on it was over kill. He had worm gears on each axis for fine tuning with simple lock. Changing angle was a pain because you had to sit there and turn that worm gear about 100 turns to go from the intake to the exhaust but it was stable.

cboggs · Post by **cboggs** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:24 am

Darin,

Hand built, .. humm, .. think he would build me one ?

OK, .. do you know anyone who could build me the same thing?

BTW, good seeing you at PRI, only if it was for a second to say hello.
I enjoyed your presentation at Superflow.

Your speed talk interview CD is awsome, .. but my girlfriend keeps wanting to turn it off in the car so she can play country music, ..
she's from Texas. Some girls just don't get it.

Curtis