How would you design a max effort street sbc?

[GARY C]

Dose that thing come stock with a 1.84 throat??, id go with the 2.28 valve and 2.14 throat, port energy man
Tom

Hmmm, I can see that port energy is not universally accepted. That is fine. I am not here to make you a believer. I am here to learn and maybe teach others what I have learned. Think of it this way guys. Not everyone is a cylinder head pro, not everyone can go to sleep and wake up with a complete engine design by morning. Some can, Port energy can really help a non pro make way better power than the average wrench by using some measurements and a kick ass program and a bit of hard work. Thanks, Charlie

FYI, your only getting that because your working with DV, if your project, program and terminology was coming from Darin Morgan these guys would be your best friend.

[zums]

Dose that thing come stock with a 1.84 throat??, id go with the 2.28 valve and 2.14 throat, port energy man
Tom

Hmmm, I can see that port energy is not universally accepted. That is fine. I am not here to make you a believer. I am here to learn and maybe teach others what I have learned. Think of it this way guys. Not everyone is a cylinder head pro, not everyone can go to sleep and wake up with a complete engine design by morning. Some can, Port energy can really help a non pro make way better power than the average wrench by using some measurements and a kick ass program and a bit of hard work. Thanks, Charlie

FYI, your only getting that because your working with DV, if your project, program and terminology was coming from Darin Morgan these guys would be your best friend.

Well im not familiar with pro stock heads so i cant comment on weather darrin morgan is right or wrong, i am familiar with 23* sbc heads and i know double entendre when i see it, its ok Gary, keep your blinders on , your good at it
Tom

[GARY C]

Hmmm, I can see that port energy is not universally accepted. That is fine. I am not here to make you a believer. I am here to learn and maybe teach others what I have learned. Think of it this way guys. Not everyone is a cylinder head pro, not everyone can go to sleep and wake up with a complete engine design by morning. Some can, Port energy can really help a non pro make way better power than the average wrench by using some measurements and a kick ass program and a bit of hard work. Thanks, Charlie

FYI, your only getting that because your working with DV, if your project, program and terminology was coming from Darin Morgan these guys would be your best friend.

Well im not familiar with pro stock heads so i cant comment on weather darrin morgan is right or wrong, i am familiar with 23* sbc heads and i know double entendre when i see it, its ok Gary, keep your blinders on , your good at it
Tom

Tom, care to elaborate?

[pdq67]

Charlie,

I would make it doing it with a 325" 4.155" by 3.00" SBC that I am going to rpm to the moon!!

My parts are in my bedroom as I speak.

8,000 rpm and you are there!

pdq67

[Carnut1]

Charlie,

I would make it doing it with a 325" 4.155" by 3.00" SBC that I am going to rpm to the moon!!

My parts are in my bedroom as I speak.

8,000 rpm and you are there!

pdq67

I am interested in what cam, valves, and valve springs you are going to run on this screamer so it will rpm and last.

[Carnut1]

FYI, your only getting that because your working with DV, if your project, program and terminology was coming from Darin Morgan these guys would be your best friend.[/quote]

Well im not familiar with pro stock heads so i cant comment on weather darrin morgan is right or wrong, i am familiar with 23* sbc heads and i know double entendre when i see it, its ok Gary, keep your blinders on , your good at it
Tom[/quote]
Tom, post up some pics of your work. I am interested. Thanks, Charlie

[n2xlr8n]

FYI, your only getting that because your working with DV, if your project, program and terminology was coming from Darin Morgan these guys would be your best friend.

Right.

Remember our History.

Imagine if the mathematicians of the world ignored each other, rather than challenged theories.

Jon Schmidt (among millions) would be out of a job.

[randy331]

FYI, your only getting that because your working with DV, if your project, program and terminology was coming from Darin Morgan these guys would be your best friend.

I can't be friends with Charlie and still disagree with his idea of putting a 2.20" valve in the Dart casting ?

Randy

[GARY C]

FYI, your only getting that because your working with DV, if your project, program and terminology was coming from Darin Morgan these guys would be your best friend.

Right.

Remember our History.

Imagine if the mathematicians of the world ignored each other, rather than challenged theories.

Jon Schmidt (among millions) would be out of a job.

Challenge is good, that's what I like about original science, you take a persons writings you duplicate everything they did and then you report back on your findings. Maybe I expect to much theses days

[GARY C]

FYI, your only getting that because your working with DV, if your project, program and terminology was coming from Darin Morgan these guys would be your best friend.

I can't be friends with Charlie and still disagree with his idea of putting a 2.20" valve in the Dart casting ?

Randy

I don't recall saying anything about valve size or head castings. Could be why you excluded the context?

Carnut1 wrote:
Hmmm, I can see that port energy is not universally accepted. That is fine. I am not here to make you a believer. I am here to learn and maybe teach others what I have learned. Think of it this way guys. Not everyone is a cylinder head pro, not everyone can go to sleep and wake up with a complete engine design by morning. Some can, Port energy can really help a non pro make way better power than the average wrench by using some measurements and a kick ass program and a bit of hard work. Thanks, Charlie

[Carnut1]

After some thought on how to progress when I get some time. Valves I have in stock, 2.02, 2.05, 2.055, 2.08, 2.125. I will work up the first intake with the 2.02 and see what I can do, I do think if you can get similar flow from a smaller valve the smaller valve has advantages. I did some work like this on a 081 casting and the smaller valve was able to manage nearly the same flows. I was able to squeeze 330 cfm out of the dart 200 I would think after what I have learned on boat anchors I can beat that number with a smaller port volume and achieve "prostock" port energy graph. Input welcome. Thanks, Charlie

[RevTheory]

I'm not sure if I have a whole lot to contribute here but those 2.05 valves seemed to sit pretty well in the pic Randy posted above. I'm sure you'll have more than plenty of valve lift to warrant 50* seats so that also sounds like the way to go.

This could obviously change if you decide to use a Dart block with, say a 4.185 bore where you could probably make the argument for a 2.125 valve, assuming you can unshroud the thing and not jack up the port trying to accommodate it.

I'm definitely following along here.

[Frankshaft]

After some thought on how to progress when I get some time. Valves I have in stock, 2.02, 2.05, 2.055, 2.08, 2.125. I will work up the first intake with the 2.02 and see what I can do, I do think if you can get similar flow from a smaller valve the smaller valve has advantages. I did some work like this on a 081 casting and the smaller valve was able to manage nearly the same flows. I was able to squeeze 330 cfm out of the dart 200 I would think after what I have learned on boat anchors I can beat that number with a smaller port volume and achieve "prostock" port energy graph. Input welcome. Thanks, Charlie

Before you waste a bunch of time that is valuable, time is something I have really been aware of lately, wow, does it fly. Anyhow, you really first need to make a plan on what your going to build, then plan a goal for horsepower, and set a goal for rpm that you are targeting. THEN you can work on the heads. Its not keep grinding, keep putting bigger and bigger valves, and trying to get as much flow as possible. The above "plan" will pretty much dictate min cross section and vale size. Cfm will be the by product. The goal isn't just maximum flow possible. Truly. You could actually get 98% of the way there, dare I say it, without even using the flow bench, just by sizing areas, and creating complementing areas to each other. You can use the flow bench to "adjust" the velocity profile, at the end if you want, but there is a point where adding a bunch of cfm and making the port bigger and bigger will not gain anything.

I know the boat anchor reference was to my comment, and I still stick to my original statement, they are boat anchors, lol, but, nice boat anchors. I have done the same stuff over the years too. But, I really don't think much applies to your Dart sbc heads, the boat anchors are cast iron sbf factory castings, and different quirks.

A youtube video comes to mind, Promaxx 200 heads, ported to 247cc 2.10 intake valve, max port job, 329cfm. The application? 10:1 383 with a 230's at .050, .540 lift hydraulic roller cam, and, a Performer rpm intake. . Clearly no idea how this stuff works. That engine is going to be a slug, if the guy ever got his heads. Don't do something like that, chasing a number.

[user-612937456]

LOL I always thought you should take your junk you had laying around and make your build fit that. Not mention no names that likes to build a junk 301 LOL remember Field of Dreams build it and they will come. Hmm... I have a dominator super Vic why don't I build an engine to fit that maybe I should Port the Dominator out first

No offense intended towards anyone I just couldn't help myself. You see it happen so often just like my scenario LOL

When it comes to Charlie I would care to bet he's already got 90% of that plan already worked out it sounds like he's using this thread effectively to validate his ideals or possibly influence him to change his projected destination

[Carnut1]

I probably have 80% nailed down. I know in my mind what I want it to drive like. In reality I should write up what the 383 that now resides in it and just build a bigger and touch snottier sbc. The 383 with lame gears and short stall was still a handful. I, unlike most am not a world class driver. I actually did a Daytona 360 spin in the Chevelle on a 1 to 2 upshift at 70 mph once. Not real fun, nearly stopped in the front row of a bunch of brand new Caddy's. That would have been a bad day. I have seen that video, I probably have a comment on it. I think you are right about getting most of the way there without the flowbench. It is nice to see the wins and losses on the bench. So far on most deals I would be ahead just grinding out what I feel is right and be done instead of going too far. I know the first design would out power the second. A junk head to experiment on would be a huge asset on something like this. Thanks, Charlie