8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

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MadBill
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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by MadBill » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:57 pm

Since it's a ring break-in rig, there are no heads so it doesn't run, it's just motored. =D>
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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by John Wallace » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:12 pm

I actually went back and looked at the 'specs'.
I guess I read too much into it, Dave never did say anything about heads or even running it.
(everyone else practically did)

For just being 'motored' seemed like a lot of trouble to go to.
Would have thought heat (varying?), oil splash, combustion pressure, etc would be wanted?

But just to reciprocate the pistons, I guess it will work for what he wants.

:?:
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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by Mark O'Neal » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:44 am

John Wallace wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:12 pm
I actually went back and looked at the 'specs'.
I guess I read too much into it, Dave never did say anything about heads or even running it.
(everyone else practically did)

For just being 'motored' seemed like a lot of trouble to go to.
Would have thought heat (varying?), oil splash, combustion pressure, etc would be wanted?

But just to reciprocate the pistons, I guess it will work for what he wants.

:?:
Finding someone that can build a motor that can't run is not all that hard to do..... :P :P

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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by midnightbluS10 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:06 am

blykins wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:30 am
Thanks for the final "reveal"......

Interesting and useful tool.

The only thing I have a problem with is the blatant advertising and the "suspenseful" delivery. Yes, you are correct: this is entertainment for a lot of us, as engine building is not really a job for me. I enjoy it that much.

However, IMO, ST threads are not meant to be soap operas. You know as well as I do, that starting a thread with a "teaser", then going away for a few weeks, only maximizes the thread exposure. Again, to me, that seems like a deliberate advertising ploy. Only you know the real motives behind the posts. If it's your intention to only use ST for advertising purposes, then that's on you. If it's your intention to only post to help, then maybe a revamp of your post delivery is in order.

If we were all allowed that amount of rein, ST would become nothing but a marketplace, instead of a place for the brain trust to meet.
Here's a suggestion. You know what to expect every time you open a DV thread. Don't like the way its done? Don't click it. It really is that simple.

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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by blykins » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:43 am

midnightbluS10 wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:06 am
blykins wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:30 am
Thanks for the final "reveal"......

Interesting and useful tool.

The only thing I have a problem with is the blatant advertising and the "suspenseful" delivery. Yes, you are correct: this is entertainment for a lot of us, as engine building is not really a job for me. I enjoy it that much.

However, IMO, ST threads are not meant to be soap operas. You know as well as I do, that starting a thread with a "teaser", then going away for a few weeks, only maximizes the thread exposure. Again, to me, that seems like a deliberate advertising ploy. Only you know the real motives behind the posts. If it's your intention to only use ST for advertising purposes, then that's on you. If it's your intention to only post to help, then maybe a revamp of your post delivery is in order.

If we were all allowed that amount of rein, ST would become nothing but a marketplace, instead of a place for the brain trust to meet.
Here's a suggestion. You know what to expect every time you open a DV thread. Don't like the way its done? Don't click it. It really is that simple.
Hmm. And I guess since it's a 2-way street, you don't have to read my posts either, huh?

Y'all have a nice day.
Lykins Motorsports
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.lykinsmotorsports.com

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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by n2xlr8n » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:56 am

I'm just a hobbyist, but I would imagine one would require combustion pressure for proper ring "break-in", no?

Is the primary idea to apply the ceramic coating?

Thanks for your posts.
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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by novadude » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:37 am

How does breaker-bar turning torque correlate to friction reduction in a running engine with gas pressure behind the rings? Intuitively, you would think there would be some correlation, but I've never seen any kind of data on this. Anyone? :?:

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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by randy331 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:07 am

novadude wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:37 am
How does breaker-bar turning torque correlate to friction reduction in a running engine with gas pressure behind the rings? Intuitively, you would think there would be some correlation, but I've never seen any kind of data on this. Anyone? :?:
While I don't have back to back data as to the power difference from different rotational TQ readings, I have seen a direct connection between what it takes to rotate one on the engine stand and oil temp. It takes energy from something to put that temp in the oil.

An example, my sons pulling truck engine ( Tommy Boy ) has old school 1/16 1/16 3/16 rings in it. The oil temp in it will climb right up to 160-180 deg. It never gets out of hand so it's not a problem. But in comparison our emc engine this year was 145 deg. at the end of our last pull.
It has thin rings back cut down to .125" on top and second, nap hook second and low tension oil rings.

With vacuum it could be lower yet.

Randy

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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by statsystems » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:50 am

Mark O'Neal wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:44 am
John Wallace wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:12 pm
I actually went back and looked at the 'specs'.
I guess I read too much into it, Dave never did say anything about heads or even running it.
(everyone else practically did)

For just being 'motored' seemed like a lot of trouble to go to.
Would have thought heat (varying?), oil splash, combustion pressure, etc would be wanted?

But just to reciprocate the pistons, I guess it will work for what he wants.

:?:
Finding someone that can build a motor that can't run is not all that hard to do..... :P :P

That's a fact. Most of my junk doesn't run so I consider myself an expert in building non running crap.

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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by OctaneNation » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:02 pm

Rotational torque reduced from 37 ft-lbs to 14 ft-lbs resulted in the engine picking up 3.8 ft-lbs on the dyno in this test...
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/dyno-tes ... orsepower/

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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by David Vizard » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:05 pm

Mark,
Your comment:-
Finding someone that can build a motor that can't run is not all that hard to do..... :P :P


The definition of a motor is, I believe, something that can run. What I built here would be better described as a ring processing fixture.
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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by David Vizard » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:12 pm

John Wallace wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:12 pm
I actually went back and looked at the 'specs'.
I guess I read too much into it, Dave never did say anything about heads or even running it.
(everyone else practically did)

For just being 'motored' seemed like a lot of trouble to go to.
Would have thought heat (varying?), oil splash, combustion pressure, etc would be wanted?

But just to reciprocate the pistons, I guess it will work for what he wants.

:?:
John,
There is about 60 psi oil pressure behind the rings.
DV
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 4 weeks. My shop or your shop. Contact seminar organizer at marvingvx@gmail.com for details.

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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by David Vizard » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:51 pm

n2xlr8n wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:56 am
I'm just a hobbyist, but I would imagine one would require combustion pressure for proper ring "break-in", no?

Is the primary idea to apply the ceramic coating?

Thanks for your posts.
Yes Mr. n2xlr8n,

You are on the right track here with your first comment. Way back in the 70's Grumpy Jenkins told me that the second set of rings on a bore always made more HP.
Since then rings have become much thinner and have much less radial depth and therefor more conformability.

Even with oil pressure behind the rings the amount of material worn from the rings during 'break-in' is extremely small and amounts to little more than a polishing process plus the ceramic coating as an anti friction deal. The rings being processed are very thin and also have an equally small radial depth. It is these small dimensions that allow the rings to conform to bores which, when under load can be seriously out of round.

So why am I going to all this trouble???
I do have before and after turning torque dyno data so I have a better appreciation of the potential power gains.

DV
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 4 weeks. My shop or your shop. Contact seminar organizer at marvingvx@gmail.com for details.

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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by cgarb » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:49 pm

So this fixture preps rings for install, what happens as the fixture wears from the microwelding you talked about. Is it touched up from time to time or the bores replaced or does it not matter? People always talk about rings seating in, will the prepped rings still go through that process in the running engine?

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Re: 8.1 inch rod in stock block/stroke 350 and -----

Post by kimosabi » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:16 am

Is this method a proven method?

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