Timing moves around all by it self

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

cgarb
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1382
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:50 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by cgarb » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:26 pm

Yeah, it's usually not a good thing to do. I had a Bosch platinum plug one time, the little platinum piece was loose in the ceramic insulator and slid out and grounded on the ground strap. Brand new plugs and 1st pass a dead miss. Put the old A/C plug back in and finished racing that day. Warranty covered the plug but that was my last set of Bosch plugs. Switched to NGK's and have been pretty happy with their race plugs.

Geoff2
Expert
Expert
Posts: 581
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by Geoff2 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:27 am

Not surprised if it is MSDs usual crappy magnetic p/up. Too much air gap, & reluctor tips are too thick. IIRC, MSD claims up to 0.050" air gap is 'ok'. HEI & Bosch p/ups run about 0.005-6" air gap with fine pointed reluctor tips for timing accuracy.
Also, the BB Mopar has the front mounted dist, subject to timing chain slack/whip; timing always seems to dance around more than a rear mount dist that has the valve springs acting on the cam to stabilise cam movement.

tenxal
Pro
Pro
Posts: 364
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by tenxal » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:58 am

bigjoe1 wrote:BB Mopar- Brand new MSD Pro billet distributor== My dyno has a MSD programmable -7 box and coil that I always run== When I get the timing close and just hold the RPM at 3500, the timing marks slowly moves up and down about 30 degrees with out moving the distributor at all. Anyone ever see anything like that ? JOE SHERMAN RACING
Joe, the stud that MSD uses to lock the advance mechanism is often not threaded enough...the nut bottoms out on the shank of the stud. This will cause the timing to hunt around.....though admittedly I've never seen one wander that much.

Worth a check, though.

Firedome8
Expert
Expert
Posts: 928
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by Firedome8 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:22 am

bigjoe1 wrote:BB Mopar- Brand new MSD Pro billet distributor== My dyno has a MSD programmable -7 box and coil that I always run== When I get the timing close and just hold the RPM at 3500, the timing marks slowly moves up and down about 30 degrees with out moving the distributor at all. Anyone ever see anything like that ?




JOE SHERMAN RACING
Joe what part # is your distubitor? I just went round and round with msd on a similar issue and they admitted their module's are at fault.

bigjoe1
Show Guest
Show Guest
Posts: 6160
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:16 pm
Location: santa ana calif-92703
Contact:

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by bigjoe1 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:14 am

The one I have is # 85463-- It is all black




JOE SHERMAN RACING

Firedome8
Expert
Expert
Posts: 928
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by Firedome8 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:15 pm

I have seen electrical water pumps false trigger msd stuff.

Tuner
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:26 am

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by Tuner » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:21 pm

Firedome8 wrote:
bigjoe1 wrote:BB Mopar- Brand new MSD Pro billet distributor== My dyno has a MSD programmable -7 box and coil that I always run== When I get the timing close and just hold the RPM at 3500, the timing marks slowly moves up and down about 30 degrees with out moving the distributor at all. Anyone ever see anything like that ?




JOE SHERMAN RACING
Joe what part # is your distubitor? I just went round and round with msd on a similar issue and they admitted their module's are at fault.
Can you elaborate on this, what particular module and what exactly did it do?

Tuner
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:26 am

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by Tuner » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:23 pm

I have seen a malfunctioning battery charger in a dyno cell cause crazy things to happen with ignition and ECU programming.

Firedome8
Expert
Expert
Posts: 928
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by Firedome8 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:50 pm

Tuner wrote:
Firedome8 wrote:
bigjoe1 wrote:BB Mopar- Brand new MSD Pro billet distributor== My dyno has a MSD programmable -7 box and coil that I always run== When I get the timing close and just hold the RPM at 3500, the timing marks slowly moves up and down about 30 degrees with out moving the distributor at all. Anyone ever see anything like that ?




JOE SHERMAN RACING
Joe what part # is your distubitor? I just went round and round with msd on a similar issue and they admitted their module's are at fault.
Can you elaborate on this, what particular module and what exactly did it do?
MSD 8365,,, module has wire that sets rpm limit when grounded at an rpm half of what you want rev limiter to work. at first the timming would jump 12* crank @ 2300 RPM on distubitor machine,,,when in car the engine ran like the timming was retarded even when I way over advanced it. Since it was new we returned it to MSD . MSD reported that the output of module was bad (low current in coil primary ). they replaced cap,coil,rotor,module and pickup coil. I retested as you suggested with a timming lite and it looked good, no extra advance. Customer will be here this week to install in car. I will report back.

Tuner
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:26 am

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by Tuner » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:07 pm

bigjoe1 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:18 pm
BB Mopar- Brand new MSD Pro billet distributor== My dyno has a MSD programmable -7 box and coil that I always run== When I get the timing close and just hold the RPM at 3500, the timing marks slowly moves up and down about 30 degrees with out moving the distributor at all. Anyone ever see anything like that ?




JOE SHERMAN RACING
Joe, did you figure out what caused this? :?:

bigjoe1
Show Guest
Show Guest
Posts: 6160
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:16 pm
Location: santa ana calif-92703
Contact:

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by bigjoe1 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:26 pm

I am sooooo embarrassed to say---It was the balancer--- It was an SFI---BHJ unit-- The outer ring was not fastened to the hub--- BUT-- It had NO RUN OUT ATT ALL-- I have never seen a balancer where the outer ring came loose that did not wobble like a bent wheel-- OH WELL



JOE SHERMAN RACING

User avatar
MadBill
Guru
Guru
Posts: 12624
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:41 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by MadBill » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:26 pm

High fives Amilcar, we (well mostly you...) win the Tootsie Roll for the right answer! :)
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

Tuner
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:26 am

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by Tuner » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:26 pm

bigjoe1 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:26 pm
I am sooooo embarrassed to say---It was the balancer--- It was an SFI---BHJ unit-- The outer ring was not fastened to the hub--- BUT-- It had NO RUN OUT ATT ALL-- I have never seen a balancer where the outer ring came loose that did not wobble like a bent wheel-- OH WELL



JOE SHERMAN RACING
LOL It must be going around. Had exactly that yesterday with an original balancer on a '71 400 SBC. Somebody said, "Wobbles like a politician." =D>

Amilcar
Pro
Pro
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:32 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by Amilcar » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:09 am

MadBill wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:26 pm
High fives Amilcar, we (well mostly you...) win the Tootsie Roll for the right answer! :)
:wink: Thanks Mad Bill, I do share the prize with you.. :D

User avatar
MadBill
Guru
Guru
Posts: 12624
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:41 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: Timing moves around all by it self

Post by MadBill » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:57 am

Dibs on the first bite.. :D
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

Post Reply