Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

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Circlotron
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Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by Circlotron » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:17 am

Just had a look at this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri_LFckaT7g
showing the building of the above motor. At the 5 minute mark it shows a huge one-piece casting that is both the main bearing caps and the sump. It is really a piece of work. Now the question is, if this type of construction really adds to the rigidity of the lower block, why doesn't any aftermarket block manufacturer make an American V8 with this feature added on? If it is not really necessary then why would Mercedes Benz use it?

mag2555
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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by mag2555 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:28 am

If you want to see a piece of industrial steel casting work go look at steam loco frames ( like from Baldwin ) that where in some cases we'll over 50 feet long and also included the cylinder and valve Bore's

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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by ptuomov » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:43 am

My Porsche V8 designed in the 1970's has a bedplate design. It's a great design especially if you use dry sump and pull a vacuum in the crankcase. Bay to bay breathing can be challenging with wet sumo and without vacuum, the design wants to communicate the piston pumping pulses thru the heads up the head oil drains.
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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by grandsport51 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:04 am

Sure the vaunted hah! M Benz Technology with torque to yield Torx cap screws every where (fully threaded shanks) ,a few years ago I quoted a couple great and wealthy customers in Central Florida prices to replace head bolts ( major failure item on M156 engines ) and r and r that engine to reseal that genius bedplate ( major oil leaker) more genius watch them install MB silicone by computer and no channel for the sealer in either block or bedplate.Hah At any rate afterquoting both of them 10 k they had their corporate lawyers contact MB and of course warranty was extended.
Also son in law works for BMW and he says they are going crazy replacing main bearings , and also valve stem seals on late model V-8s 48 labor hours customer paid . See link at Benz World pretty funny
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204 ... bolts.html

Maybe we should all buy Baldwin Locomotives !

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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by PackardV8 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:19 pm

Just one more example of designing for ease of production and first owner durability without any thought of rebuilding.

Speaking of rebuilding German engines, I have a relative who owns several luxury car dealerships. When I've asked him to watch for a good example of a particular model coming through as a trade-in, he says, "if you can't afford to buy one new, you sure-as-shit can't afford to own one after the warranty."
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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:28 pm

Its pretty difficult to see the split for the big ends, must be fractured. And back wards german stuff all the arrows on the rod caps point to the rear?
Just wow. This is in the MB forum link.

At the factory link, the arrows are pointing to the front????
Also its so funny in the MB forum link how some worry about the dealer techs working on the engine, its better than just pulling a crank out of a plastic bag and installing it in the factory. No wonder there is cases of debris in oil drillings in crankshafts etc. they never even look.

So Mercedes cuts the corners with the design and pays through the nose to let one guy do it all assembly? Its faster doing the production line and things like arrows pointing the correct way aren't so easily messed up. I'd rather more quality construction than to have one person doing the assembly work. And wrong choice of gasketing.

And here is why BMW has so many problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fnSnCGQZKk

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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by miniv8 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:53 pm

http://championspeedshop.com/ used to build one piece main caps and frame for the Small Block Chevy. I think it was a cast iron piece.

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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by peejay » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:30 pm

Circlotron wrote:Just had a look at this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri_LFckaT7g
showing the building of the above motor. At the 5 minute mark it shows a huge one-piece casting that is both the main bearing caps and the sump. It is really a piece of work. Now the question is, if this type of construction really adds to the rigidity of the lower block, why doesn't any aftermarket block manufacturer make an American V8 with this feature added on? If it is not really necessary then why would Mercedes Benz use it?

EVERYBODY is doing it this way now. My '02 Volvo does it. A '95 Cadillac Northstar does it. Porsche 944s and 928s do it. More Nissans than I could care to count do it. Dodge Neons do it.

It's usually called something like a bedplate or sometimes lower block half.

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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by peejay » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:33 pm

exhaustgases wrote:Its pretty difficult to see the split for the big ends, must be fractured. And back wards german stuff all the arrows on the rod caps point to the rear?
Are they arrows or are they diagrams of a crankshaft with a flywheel on the end?

I remember some German engines being stamped like that... looked like an arrow if you weren't paying attention, but it was a crank with a flywheel on the end.

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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:46 pm

exhaustgases wrote:Its pretty difficult to see the split for the big ends, must be fractured. And back wards german stuff all the arrows on the rod caps point to the rear?
Just wow. This is in the MB forum link.

At the factory link, the arrows are pointing to the front????
Also its so funny in the MB forum link how some worry about the dealer techs working on the engine, its better than just pulling a crank out of a plastic bag and installing it in the factory. No wonder there is cases of debris in oil drillings in crankshafts etc. they never even look.

So Mercedes cuts the corners with the design and pays through the nose to let one guy do it all assembly? Its faster doing the production line and things like arrows pointing the correct way aren't so easily messed up. I'd rather more quality construction than to have one person doing the assembly work. And wrong choice of gasketing.

And here is why BMW has so many problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fnSnCGQZKk
After some study it looks like the arrows point to the adjoining rod. ??? Why?

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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by iadr » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:13 pm

Ford 2.7 Eco Boost has yet another concept that seems pretty radical the first time you see it:

Image

roc
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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by roc » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:44 pm

iadr wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:13 pm
Ford 2.7 Eco Boost has yet another concept that seems pretty radical the first time you see it:

Image
Nice picture, I didn't know that. Thanks iadr.

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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by peejay » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:54 pm

Kind of the opposite of a y-block while also being the mother of all structural oil pans, yeah?

They're putting this engine in cars now, too. The new Fusion's getting it.

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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by jake197000 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:13 pm

no wonder they lost the war.ive seen many bedplates leak.not an easy fix.no money in it.

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Re: Mercedes Benz AMG 63 main caps and sump

Post by kimosabi » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:59 am

It's a cost saving feature.

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