Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

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redliner
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:00 pm

mk e wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:38 pm
redliner wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:33 pm
mk e wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:24 pm

That sounds like a winning plan!

Programs like dynomation5 (just ordered my copy of dynomation6) or the designs I've seen from places like burns have having at all about order in the collector, but the flow bench and dyno sure say bends matter!
What do they say about the order of the pipes in the collector for my 4/7 swap I'm wundrin...
They don't care about the order of the pipes in ANY setup of any kind. Get the sizes right, use the biggest bends you can and you'll have a good header no matter what order they get plugged into the collect.
Thats what I was hopin! THANKS!!!

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by GARY C » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:21 pm

I know of 2 peolpe who have seen gains with conventional firing order by changing the clocking of the pipes in the collector but then the question turns to, was it the position change or was it because it is now a whole new header?

The pipe size you posted out in your OP seem very big for an SBC.

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:43 pm

GARY C wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:21 pm
I know of 2 peolpe who have seen gains with conventional firing order by changing the clocking of the pipes in the collector but then the question turns to, was it the position change or was it because it is now a whole new header?

The pipe size you posted out in your OP seem very big for an SBC.
The pipe size seems big to me as well! Tis what pipemax says for my combo if I entered all the data correctly.... I think I did but I am noooo computer guy.....

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by RevTheory » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:37 pm

I think the biggest deal regarding headers and a 4/7 swap applies to 4-2-1 headers. With a standard firing order, you wouldn't pair 5 & 7 together into the secondary but pairing 2 & 4 would be fine (I think). With a 4/7 swap, it gets reversed i.e. you now wouldn't pair up 2 & 4 into the secondary but 5 & 7 would be fine.

I don't think any of that applies to a 4-into-1 header.

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by mk e » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:46 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:37 pm
I think the biggest deal regarding headers and a 4/7 swap applies to 4-2-1 headers.
Good point.....
Mark
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by GARY C » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:03 pm

redliner wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:43 pm
GARY C wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:21 pm
I know of 2 peolpe who have seen gains with conventional firing order by changing the clocking of the pipes in the collector but then the question turns to, was it the position change or was it because it is now a whole new header?

The pipe size you posted out in your OP seem very big for an SBC.
The pipe size seems big to me as well! Tis what pipemax says for my combo if I entered all the data correctly.... I think I did but I am noooo computer guy.....
Maybe Larry or Calvin will chime in.

It seems the trend in power gains over the last ten years has been toward smaller headers and collectors then what was once thought to be correct.

I was shocked to find out that the 900+ hp ProStock truck 358 was running a primary of 1.625, I don't know what the step lengths were but It was smaller then I would have ever guessed.

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:35 pm

GARY C wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:03 pm
redliner wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:43 pm
GARY C wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:21 pm
I know of 2 peolpe who have seen gains with conventional firing order by changing the clocking of the pipes in the collector but then the question turns to, was it the position change or was it because it is now a whole new header?

The pipe size you posted out in your OP seem very big for an SBC.
The pipe size seems big to me as well! Tis what pipemax says for my combo if I entered all the data correctly.... I think I did but I am noooo computer guy.....
Maybe Larry or Calvin will chime in.

It seems the trend in power gains over the last ten years has been toward smaller headers and collectors then what was once thought to be correct.

I was shocked to find out that the 900+ hp ProStock truck 358 was running a primary of 1.625, I don't know what the step lengths were but It was smaller then I would have ever guessed.
The sizes I stated seemed very large to me but hell... I'm just a shade tree mechanic. I bought the pipemax so I would get it right the first time.... do ya think pipemax is accurate?

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:36 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:37 pm
I think the biggest deal regarding headers and a 4/7 swap applies to 4-2-1 headers. With a standard firing order, you wouldn't pair 5 & 7 together into the secondary but pairing 2 & 4 would be fine (I think). With a 4/7 swap, it gets reversed i.e. you now wouldn't pair up 2 & 4 into the secondary but 5 & 7 would be fine.

I don't think any of that applies to a 4-into-1 header.
I see.... no these will be just fenderwell headers built to pipemax specs

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by GARY C » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:57 pm

redliner wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:35 pm
GARY C wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:03 pm
redliner wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:43 pm


The pipe size seems big to me as well! Tis what pipemax says for my combo if I entered all the data correctly.... I think I did but I am noooo computer guy.....
Maybe Larry or Calvin will chime in.

It seems the trend in power gains over the last ten years has been toward smaller headers and collectors then what was once thought to be correct.

I was shocked to find out that the 900+ hp ProStock truck 358 was running a primary of 1.625, I don't know what the step lengths were but It was smaller then I would have ever guessed.
The sizes I stated seemed very large to me but hell... I'm just a shade tree mechanic. I bought the pipemax so I would get it right the first time.... do ya think pipemax is accurate?
I have never tested with it but from what I have seen posted here in relation to dyno sheets seems to be pretty acurate.

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by maxracesoftware » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:31 am

redliner wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:43 pm
GARY C wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:21 pm
I know of 2 peolpe who have seen gains with conventional firing order by changing the clocking of the pipes in the collector but then the question turns to, was it the position change or was it because it is now a whole new header?

The pipe size you posted out in your OP seem very big for an SBC.
The pipe size seems big to me as well! Tis what pipemax says for my combo if I entered all the data correctly.... I think I did but I am noooo computer guy.....
would you please Post a screenshot of PipeMax with all your input values entered
just to double-check if your input values look OK ??
maybe an input value is wrong and PipeMax is predicting too large Header specs ??
Meaux Racing Heads
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PipeMax and ET_Analyst for DragRacers
http://www.maxracesoftware.com
http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/index.php
PipeMax v3.98   http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/v ... f=14&t=249

redliner
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:27 am

maxracesoftware wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:31 am
redliner wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:43 pm
GARY C wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:21 pm
I know of 2 peolpe who have seen gains with conventional firing order by changing the clocking of the pipes in the collector but then the question turns to, was it the position change or was it because it is now a whole new header?

The pipe size you posted out in your OP seem very big for an SBC.
The pipe size seems big to me as well! Tis what pipemax says for my combo if I entered all the data correctly.... I think I did but I am noooo computer guy.....
would you please Post a screenshot of PipeMax with all your input values entered
just to double-check if your input values look OK ??
maybe an input value is wrong and PipeMax is predicting too large Header specs ??
Thats what I was wondering....I am no computer guy but I will try THANKS!!!

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by englertracing » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:36 am

If I was given the choice between spiral, and random, I'd go for spiral if it didn't make for more/tighter bends. I imagine there would in fact be some small minute difference.

redliner
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:53 am

redliner wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:27 am
maxracesoftware wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:31 am
redliner wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:43 pm


The pipe size seems big to me as well! Tis what pipemax says for my combo if I entered all the data correctly.... I think I did but I am noooo computer guy.....
would you please Post a screenshot of PipeMax with all your input values entered
just to double-check if your input values look OK ??
maybe an input value is wrong and PipeMax is predicting too large Header specs ??
Thats what I was wondering....I am no computer guy but I will try THANKS!!!
Tis is the best I can do for now.... (VE 100% a guess!),4,125,3.875,6.0,8,7000-7500,11.5,(600 dyno rate I have no idea what to put so I went with 600),2,2.08,.3438,.715,016,262,106,110,2,1.6,.3438,.700,.020,268,(4.1 I guessed at this.... I am running a Speier fully ported Motown single plane intake and 1050 Dominator). My results were 2.005 dia. 9.8-11.2 long,step to 2.130 dia. 19.5 - 21 long. I am no computer guy as you can see. If this makes it to difficult I understand. Thanks!

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by mk e » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:49 am

Open a program called "snipping tool", it is on all windows machine and will help you make a screen shot of you pipemax setup , then hit the save nutton snd it makes a jpg that you can post using the attachments tab
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by In-Tech » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:36 am

No need for a tool(I've not seen that one you speak of on my windows machines). Shift/Print Screen(look at your top keys to find it), open up paint(in all windows programs under accessories), Ctrl V will paste it, save as .jpg to desktop for ease of finding it. Post here :)
Heat is energy, energy is horsepower...but you gotta control the heat.
-Carl

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