Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

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redliner
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:52 am

redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:50 am
77cruiser wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:46 am
Easier to build too. 2-6 & 4-8 1-3 & 5-7, I think just opposite of standard firing order.
I was thinkin they would make more/ broader power AND be easier to build.... WIN/WIN!!!
Whatta ya mean opposite of standard firing order? What would that be? ( sorry brain fade...)
Last edited by redliner on Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:04 am

I dont wanna bug CamKing but, can you help for the sake of my Pipemax input, they ask what the max hp rpm is for the Jones cam I have listed a the beginning of this post. Mikes says it will make 630-650 @ 7000 but is 7000 where the cam makes max hp so I can input this into the pipemax questions? It makes quite a difference if I list 7000 max or 7500 max hp rpm. QUITE a difference!!!

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by 77cruiser » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:21 am

redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:52 am
redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:50 am
77cruiser wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:46 am
Easier to build too. 2-6 & 4-8 1-3 & 5-7, I think just opposite of standard firing order.
I was thinkin they would make more/ broader power AND be easier to build.... WIN/WIN!!!
Whatta ya mean opposite of standard firing order? What would that be? ( sorry brain fade...)
Just the way you pair the primaries. Standard firing order, it's 1-5 & 3-7/ 2-4 6-8
Jim

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by MadBill » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:39 pm

redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:04 am
I dont wanna bug CamKing but, can you help for the sake of my Pipemax input, they ask what the max hp rpm is for the Jones cam I have listed a the beginning of this post. Mikes says it will make 630-650 @ 7000 but is 7000 where the cam makes max hp so I can input this into the pipemax questions? It makes quite a difference if I list 7000 max or 7500 max hp rpm. QUITE a difference!!!
I believe PipeMax dimensions are for a power band starting 1500 or so below the listed peak and ending maybe 500 over, so you have some latitude. I usually see no more than a 2" difference in primary recommended for a 500 RPM spread and many builders feel that several inches variation pipe to pipe has little effect, but if you feel the need for precision split the difference and aim for 7,250. Collector variations, easily tried on the dyno, make more difference anyway.
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:20 pm

MadBill wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:39 pm
redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:04 am
I dont wanna bug CamKing but, can you help for the sake of my Pipemax input, they ask what the max hp rpm is for the Jones cam I have listed a the beginning of this post. Mikes says it will make 630-650 @ 7000 but is 7000 where the cam makes max hp so I can input this into the pipemax questions? It makes quite a difference if I list 7000 max or 7500 max hp rpm. QUITE a difference!!!
I believe PipeMax dimensions are for a power band starting 1500 or so below the listed peak and ending maybe 500 over, so you have some latitude. I usually see no more than a 2" difference in primary recommended for a 500 RPM spread and many builders feel that several inches variation pipe to pipe has little effect, but if you feel the need for precision split the difference and aim for 7,250. Collector variations, easily tried on the dyno, make more difference anyway.
Sorry Mad but I should have stated I was calculating H.P. numbers when I made the above statements. I'm sorry my fault..... not absent minded just deep in thought...

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by MadBill » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:28 pm

Yes, 500 more peak power RPM with no loss of V.E. does have quite an effect on power!
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:33 pm

MadBill wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:28 pm
Yes, 500 more peak power RPM with no loss of V.E. does have quite an effect on power!
Ya Mad it was around 30 35 hp!
Mike says the cam will make 630 -650 @ 7000 then I entered 7500 and WOW!! I just do not know at what rpm the peak hp of this cam is in my 414

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by mk e » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:41 pm

redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:33 pm
Ya Mad it was around 30 35 hp!
Mike says the cam will make 630 -650 @ 7000 then I entered 7500 and WOW!! I just do not know at what rpm the peak hp of this cam is in my 414
If you lie to the program the answer will not mean anything. Why back the 1st engine sim I used I found if I put in a higher rpm the power went up every where, so the idea was born to "build" a 10k engine on the sim and see what specs if liked, but and just set the real redline to 7k.....yeah it doesn't work like that and fancier programs aren't fooled that way but are much harder to use.

If Mike told you 7k then use 7k, he seems to know what he's talking about.
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:53 pm

mk e wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:41 pm
redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:33 pm
Ya Mad it was around 30 35 hp!
Mike says the cam will make 630 -650 @ 7000 then I entered 7500 and WOW!! I just do not know at what rpm the peak hp of this cam is in my 414
If you lie to the program the answer will not mean anything. Why back the 1st engine sim I used I found if I put in a higher rpm the power went up every where, so the idea was born to "build" a 10k engine on the sim and see what specs if liked, but and just set the real redline to 7k.....yeah it doesn't work like that and fancier programs aren't fooled that way but are much harder to use.

If Mike told you 7k then use 7k, he seems to know what he's talking about.
I am not trying to lie to the program or dispute Mikes word. I simply was told by Mike it would make 630 to 650 @ 7000 which is the rpm I stated when he ground the cam for me. I was simply playing around with pipemax to look at numbers when i entered the higher rpm number. I do not know if the 7000 rpm number is the peak power for my cam or not. I was simply throwing this out there to see if Mike would fill me in but he has helped alot already and I feel guilty for taking up his time with silly rookie questions.....

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by mk e » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:51 pm

redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:53 pm

I am not trying to lie to the program or dispute Mikes word. I simply was told by Mike it would make 630 to 650 @ 7000 which is the rpm I stated when he ground the cam for me. I was simply playing around with pipemax to look at numbers when i entered the higher rpm number. I do not know if the 7000 rpm number is the peak power for my cam or not. I was simply throwing this out there to see if Mike would fill me in but he has helped alot already and I feel guilty for taking up his time with silly rookie questions.....
Im not saying you're doing anything bad, I'm saying you're human and like to see big numbers......which probably aren't real.

Take the numbers mike gave you as correct. Adjust the VE in pipemax until it matches, then build the headers it tells you and you'll be right.

If you want a second opinion on the HP or build options, get dynomation or similar.....but I think it's a waste now that the major stuff is already picked.
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:15 pm

mk e wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:51 pm
redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:53 pm

I am not trying to lie to the program or dispute Mikes word. I simply was told by Mike it would make 630 to 650 @ 7000 which is the rpm I stated when he ground the cam for me. I was simply playing around with pipemax to look at numbers when i entered the higher rpm number. I do not know if the 7000 rpm number is the peak power for my cam or not. I was simply throwing this out there to see if Mike would fill me in but he has helped alot already and I feel guilty for taking up his time with silly rookie questions.....
Im not saying you're doing anything bad, I'm saying you're human and like to see big numbers......which probably aren't real.

Take the numbers mike gave you as correct. Adjust the VE in pipemax until it matches, then build the headers it tells you and you'll be right.

If you want a second opinion on the HP or build options, get dynomation or similar.....but I think it's a waste now that the major stuff is already picked.
You are missing my point entirely..... I merely want to know at what rpm the peak( ballbark) hp is for this cam.

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by mk e » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:22 pm

redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:15 pm
You are missing my point entirely..... I merely want to know at what rpm the peak( ballbark) hp is for this cam.
No, I get your point....and the answer is 7000 rpm. That is why Mike gave it to you, but you like the bigger numbers a higher rpm yield so you keep asking for permission to use the higher number....but the answer is 7k ;)
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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by digger » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:26 pm

7000 would be the peak hp rpm. Why would he tell you a number 500 rpm below the peak rpm

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by strokersix » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:33 pm

Little know speed secret: Collector pulse timing clockwise on the left side, counterclockwise on the right. This to create vortices on each side of the car reduce aero drag but you have to run tailpipes to properly place to vortex. Vette sidepipes even better.

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Re: Header primary pipe sequence into collector for 4/7 swap

Post by redliner » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:42 pm

mk e wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:22 pm
redliner wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:15 pm
You are missing my point entirely..... I merely want to know at what rpm the peak( ballbark) hp is for this cam.
No, I get your point....and the answer is 7000 rpm. That is why Mike gave it to you, but you like the bigger numbers a higher rpm yield so you keep asking for permission to use the higher number....but the answer is 7k ;)
No you obviously do NOT!!!!! You are not as intelligent as you lead yourself to believe... If you can somehow read my thoughts... which you think you can..... you are wasting your time on this site..... wait..... can you tell what I am thinking now????

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