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Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:20 am
by Gregory
This is the new thread for Race Engine Challenge. Let's keep it on topic - tech ideas for a new engine contest. For those of
you new to this topic, go to the web page for details (www.RaceEngineChallenge.com).
The guiding light for our first contest is an engine for a strong street/strip engine. In 2019 we plan on having two classes.
As stated on the web page the rules will be released at the PRI show.
Now it's your turn.
Greg Finnican
Charlotte, NC
704 408-7356

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:21 am
by RAMM
I've got an idea Greg and its one that will keep this contest on the up and up and also keep the Correction Factor B.S. to a minimum. I suggest displaying for all to see and keep an eye on from the beginning of the contest to the conclusion is the dyno's Torque Co-Efficient Value--mine is currently 470.13 ft/lb / Volt. The Correction Factor does not influence this but the torque arm and weights do. Put this on display for all to see and it will keep everyone honest. J.Rob

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:23 am
by RAMM
Also after watching this year's Traditional Muscle Class play out at UNOH I gotta say the rules were quite well thought out by Adger. I would emulate these if you want some seriously scienced out entries. J.Rob

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:38 am
by David Vizard
RAMM wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:23 am
Also after watching this year's Traditional Muscle Class play out at UNOH I gotta say the rules were quite well thought out by Adger. I would emulate these if you want some seriously scienced out entries. J.Rob
Got a link to this??
DV

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:50 am
by RAMM
The rules or the Facebook videos? J.Rob

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:03 am
by David Vizard
RAMM wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:50 am
The rules or the Facebook videos? J.Rob
Both if you have them please?
DV

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am
by RAMM
First link is Facebook-scroll down on left side and click videos-they are all there. J.Rob

https://www.facebook.com/hotrodmag/

http://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2 ... 092117.pdf

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:21 pm
by Walter R. Malik
RAMM wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:23 am
Also after watching this year's Traditional Muscle Class play out at UNOH I gotta say the rules were quite well thought out by Adger. I would emulate these if you want some seriously scienced out entries. J.Rob
I must say that with just a few changes, I could agree.

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:27 pm
by Joe-71
Greg: Some questions that I haven't seen answered are these: To what end is the engine being compared to? Street, Drag Race, Oval Track, Dirt Track, Street Stock, Pure Stock, Super Stock, Stock Eliminator, Road Race, Pro Stock, Naturally Aspirated, Power Adder? Cubic inch limits? Fuel requirements? Highest horsepower, highest torque, or highest average overall? Street headers, race headers, wet sump, dry sump, vacuum pump, just what are the parameters you seek? Is this the latest and greatest parts, or stock parts, or vintage parts? Cost factor limits? Single camshaft, multiple camshafts? Joe-71

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:58 pm
by Walter R. Malik
Joe-71 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:27 pm
Greg: Some questions that I haven't seen answered are these: To what end is the engine being compared to? Street, Drag Race, Oval Track, Dirt Track, Street Stock, Pure Stock, Super Stock, Stock Eliminator, Road Race, Pro Stock, Naturally Aspirated, Power Adder? Cubic inch limits? Fuel requirements? Highest horsepower, highest torque, or highest average overall? Street headers, race headers, wet sump, dry sump, vacuum pump, just what are the parameters you seek? Is this the latest and greatest parts, or stock parts, or vintage parts? Cost factor limits? Single camshaft, multiple camshafts? Joe-71
Greg has said somewhere in this forum that it will be an advanced street/strip type engine and the contest requirements will be released during the weekend of the PRI show in Indy.

He seems to be looking here to obtain some further ideas about those final rules.

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:20 pm
by Joe-71
Having been involved with EMC for three years, I would like to see the rules stipulate that exotic remaking of a part not be acceptable in direct competition with the cast parts such as cylinder heads. Modifications limited to porting, filling, or raising the floors, but not changing the entire port configuration, or adding plates to extend the head into the chambers. I sincerely respect Jon Kaase, but "one-off" experimental changes should be in a class all to themselves and a category for that type of build. Joe-71

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:37 pm
by RAMM
Joe-71 wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:20 pm
Having been involved with EMC for three years, I would like to see the rules stipulate that exotic remaking of a part not be acceptable in direct competition with the cast parts such as cylinder heads. Modifications limited to porting, filling, or raising the floors, but not changing the entire port configuration, or adding plates to extend the head into the chambers. I sincerely respect Jon Kaase, but "one-off" experimental changes should be in a class all to themselves and a category for that type of build. Joe-71
Strongly disagree. EMC has been a fantastic forum much like a Science Fair from school to truly TRY new things that would otherwise never get tested. I have no problem with the way Jon Kaase thinks because it is well within the rules. J.Rob

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:16 am
by CamKing
Joe-71 wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:20 pm
Having been involved with EMC for three years, I would like to see the rules stipulate that exotic remaking of a part not be acceptable in direct competition with the cast parts such as cylinder heads. Modifications limited to porting, filling, or raising the floors, but not changing the entire port configuration, or adding plates to extend the head into the chambers. I sincerely respect Jon Kaase, but "one-off" experimental changes should be in a class all to themselves and a category for that type of build. Joe-71
My comments to Greg were, since these engines are supposed to represent engines that would be built for customers, for street/strip performance, the rules should reflect that. Things like spending $20K on cam development is really not something a street/strip customer is going to pay for, so it shouldn't be part of this competition. I'm sure if someone spent the money to make a manifold that changed runner length as the RPM changed, would have a huge advantage, but it really wouldn't fit the spirit of the competition.

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:50 pm
by GARY C
CamKing wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:16 am
Joe-71 wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:20 pm
Having been involved with EMC for three years, I would like to see the rules stipulate that exotic remaking of a part not be acceptable in direct competition with the cast parts such as cylinder heads. Modifications limited to porting, filling, or raising the floors, but not changing the entire port configuration, or adding plates to extend the head into the chambers. I sincerely respect Jon Kaase, but "one-off" experimental changes should be in a class all to themselves and a category for that type of build. Joe-71
My comments to Greg were, since these engines are supposed to represent engines that would be built for customers, for street/strip performance, the rules should reflect that. Things like spending $20K on cam development is really not something a street/strip customer is going to pay for, so it shouldn't be part of this competition. I'm sure if someone spent the money to make a manifold that changed runner length as the RPM changed, would have a huge advantage, but it really wouldn't fit the spirit of the competition.
How do you think that could be done?
In a competition how do you stop people with money from spending it to win?
Thats why my thought was to build according to a race with class rules like a lower level dirt track class and then have an open class with minimal rules.
There are so many ways to go and someone is not going to agree regardless.

Re: Race Engine Challenge II

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:04 pm
by Warp Speed
Money always wins, be it tight rules or none at all.