Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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bobrec1228
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Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by bobrec1228 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:08 pm

Im wondering what opinions would be on thermal coatings on surfaces such as piston tops, chambers, valves and exhaust ports to reduce the temperature of a engine, my idea is to use the coatings to send more heat out the exhaust and less into the block. This is a purpose build that requires the engine to run without coolant for over 30 min at times, im trying to stay away from methenol to keep fuel capacity down so im looking at other approaches to take, The engine currently has conservative compression, fairly loose piston/bearing clearances, and aggressive oiling to keep it spinning free. Any input from experience would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by bigjoe1 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:51 pm

I have seen lots of testing on this subject, and it is just NOT COST EFFECTIVE-- BIG WASTE OF MONEY




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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by shoedoos » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:55 pm

demo derby engine by any chance?

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by bobrec1228 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:06 pm

shoedoos wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:55 pm
demo derby engine by any chance?
Yeah it is, definitely a different type of build.

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by 1989TransAm » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:10 pm

I had it done on the headers for my 1989 Trans Am. I did it mainly to keep them from corroding which the coating did do. It also lowered the under hood temperatures. As to any horsepower gain I cannot say.

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by bobrec1228 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:13 pm

bigjoe1 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:51 pm
I have seen lots of testing on this subject, and it is just NOT COST EFFECTIVE-- BIG WASTE OF MONEY




JOE SHERMAN RACING

Some have told me its useless and others have said its well worth the money.... could just be trying to sell a product I suppose!

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Post by dwilliams » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:14 am

Using the ceramic thermal barrier coatings, I never saw any definite power gain just from that. But they eliminated pinging and let me run a higher CR without having a fussy tune.

A hot night, radiator full of mud, old end-of-season gas, driver bogging it out of the turns under the caution flag... I never had a coated engine come back with detonation damage.

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by joe 90 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:40 am

Like ceramic tiles on the space shuttle.
Got to be a couple of inches thick to insulate properly.

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by emsvitil » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:01 am

How much power does a demo engine need?

Run half the engine at a time.

Pumping air in the other half to cool it down.
Ed

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by mag2555 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:33 am

Coating chambers and piston tops on motor that only runs for 9 seconds at a time down the 1/4 mile may only show extra power within the accuracy range of the dyno ,but it does on far longer roundy round races, not to mention you can back out 2 degrees of timing.

Are cooler oil temps and Manifold temps worth more to a motor doing a afternoon worth of laps at 180 mph, or even just 12 laps on a dirt track, let here the responses?

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by pamotorman » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:07 am

the engine is a heat pump and the more heat you keep in the combustion chamber the more power you will make. that is why you need 0.5 more CR to make the same power with aluminum heads vs cast iron on the same engine build as the aluminum heads transfer more heat into the water jacket.

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by RevTheory » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:49 am

I don't think he's after a power gain, he's just trying to keep it from welding itself together after a half-hour of running with no water. No?

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by PackardV8 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:33 pm

the engine is a heat pump and the more heat you keep in the combustion chamber the more power you will make. that is why you need 0.5 more CR to make the same power with aluminum heads vs cast iron on the same engine build as the aluminum heads transfer more heat into the water jacket.
Agree. In thermodynamic theory, any heat absorbed by the metal and the coolant is wasted power.

In practice, without coolant, any heat not going into the metal won't eventually get to the oil burn it away and eventually to the bearings and won't weld them to the crank. That's what kills most of those engines. So yes, coating the valves, combustion chambers, exhaust ports and piston tops and skirts would be beneficial.
and aggressive oiling to keep it spinning free.
The largest possible oil cooler will greatly extend the run time of an "air-cooled" engine. Is that a possibility?
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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by roc » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:45 pm

It seems wasteful to me to spend money in internal engine coating for an engine that will seize up.
Could you relocate the radiator to a more protected area, like in the trunk right behind the back seat?

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Re: Coatings to reduce operating temperatures

Post by bobrec1228 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:52 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:49 am
I don't think he's after a power gain, he's just trying to keep it from welding itself together after a half-hour of running with no water. No?


You are correct, the engine is currently around 450hp and it pulls 5000lb cars around just fine!

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