Anyone use Motul 10w40 break-in oil?

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Re: Anyone use Motul 10w40 break-in oil?

Post by swampbuggy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:22 am

Dave i am in agreement with you, i want to expand on my first comment------if you have a bore that is ROUND and has the correct finish on it for the rings to be used with proper ring to groove clearance and end gap as well as correct piston to cylinder wall clearance and you put some load on the engine soon after starting-----------break in oil or (not) those rings will face in pretty quick. Mark

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Re: Anyone use Motul 10w40 break-in oil?

Post by racear2865 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:18 am

Im not trying to beat the bushes here, but I do listen to the oil people closely as they absolutely know more than I do. And as far as listening to Lake Speed Jr--yes he knows a hell of a lot more than me and he may and should be biased. If he isnt biased towards his program, then something would be wrong with him. But none the less, he knows more than me on oil. I fire any where's from 1 to 3 dyno motors per week---so Im not a great user as some on here. But I do watch what happens. Even engines we build that we do not fire, we sale Gibbs with the motor to ensure that we know what the engine is started. Sure there is probably many oils that are just as good or may be better. But I dont know what they are. I have not lost a cam in- shit I dont know how long, and we fire some aggressive flat tappet motors (up to 500 Lb on the nose). We know without a doubt the rings will be seated coming of the dyno. And we know they are seated before we make a power run. I have a leak down on the motor at all times and you can see the rings seal. It is not visual but as quick as I can add another channel card, I will add it to the channels watched and recorded so as to show the customer. The dyno is nothing but another tool but you can learn from it. It is handy as hell to dial in timing and the carb. The Gibbs oil makes it slightly easier as I know how much richness and leanness I can get by with and still seal the rings. I have yet to have a engine come back for rings not sealed unless a customer dumps fuel down the hatch. Had one to put gas in a alcohol carb and play for over an hour and he broke the ring seal. Yanked the heads off, pushed piston up, installed new rings and refired on dyno with 75 lb load. That was in beginning of season. Still running and has about 7% leakage, which is what it normally is at the end of his season. Im not telling you to go to Gibbs but I am saying, oils make a difference, but I do know roller lifters need to be broken in just like flat tappets..And Im not talking burnish in on the cam. Every piece of that motor has to go thru a mate cycle and I am "totally" convinced oils can affect that. Ok fell of my soap box and now my arse hurts. Got to fire a 496 Blower motor. Gonna play.
reed

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Re: Anyone use Motul 10w40 break-in oil?

Post by amcenthusiast » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:17 am

Break in oil plays a huge role in how much power your engine will make.

I could write a small book on it, having chapters on importance of cylinder pressure, metrology, micro-finishes, oil chemistry, parasitic loss etc.

I've run out of time to finish this comment so I'll try to come back later and explain more.

Feel free to PM me if I become pre-occupied with something else and forget to add more explanation here.
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Re: Anyone use Motul 10w40 break-in oil?

Post by statsystems » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:25 pm

amcenthusiast wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:17 am
Break in oil plays a huge role in how much power your engine will make.

I could write a small book on it, having chapters on importance of cylinder pressure, metrology, micro-finishes, oil chemistry, parasitic loss etc.

I've run out of time to finish this comment so I'll try to come back later and explain more.

Feel free to PM me if I become pre-occupied with something else and forget to add more explanation here.

Post more because I'd love to read it.

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Re: Anyone use Motul 10w40 break-in oil?

Post by statsystems » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:30 pm

BradH wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:05 am
DaveMcLain wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:54 pm
roc wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:04 pm

Very interesting, those are strong endorsements. I never took break-in oil seriously (aside the ZZDP for flat tappets), but I've never done any in depth study.
This sort of thing is difficult to study but I've tried. I have not had trouble with engines broken in using either a "break in" or a regular oil when the engine has a roller cam. As long as the cylinders are finished properly for the rings I'm not terribly convinced that its any big deal.
I'll throw in the observation that a bunch of VOAs on various brands of break-in oils revealed that everybody seems to blend them differently, including HUGE variations in the amounts of comon anti-wear & detergent components. I don't know which brand(s) got it right and which ones are totally off in left field.
I
I personally use Torco on everything I do. It's about the most expensive oil out there, right up with LAT. I've tested it enough that I have total confidence in it. I'm now done using the break in oil. I'll drain it, strain it put it back in th bottles and use it again.

I have sitting next to me a case of Torco 5w30 SR5r waiting to be used. With shipping to my door...$297.18 and I'm glad to pay it.

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Re: Anyone use Motul 10w40 break-in oil?

Post by ZEOHSIX » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:29 pm

Im surprised no "Expert" has recommended their "speed secret" Rotella oil......Im a big fan of Rotella......in my diesel pick up :)

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Re: Anyone use Motul 10w40 break-in oil?

Post by scubasteve231 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:49 am

The big question to ask is "what additive pack does a break in oil have, that a regular oil doesn't, that will make a difference during the break in period?" I've never seen any solid tests or studies that prove a certain additive pack helps with break-in. Flat tappet cams require adequate ZDDP levels for their entire life span, so that is no different either. Honestly, I think the ZDDP level reduction that happened around 2007 and all the cam lobe wipe-out stories that surfaced during that time opened up a whole new market for oil companies to sell a "special" higher profit margin oil.

I think that the cylinder wall finish, and how the engine is run during the first hours of operation would make the most difference.

During break-in, wear metals will be higher than normal. I think that quickly removing these particles from the oil could be more beneficial than any "special" additive pack. Drain plug and filter magnets may help pull those metals out the oil quicker. A filter with synthetic media that can flow more and filter better than paper would be beneficial. More particles pulled out of the oil, and more oil flowing through the filter. Maybe even block the bypass and run a non bypass filter to make sure ALL of the oil is filtered, if possible or easily accomplished. A filter like a Wix XP, Fram XG/Ultra, or Mobil 1 all have synthetic media. Change the oil and filter immediately after the break in period, of course.

Honestly, I think any quality oil, or especial one with a virgin oil analysis that shows a strong and performance oriented additive pack would make a fine break in oil. Expensive break in oils are probably just that, a good quality oil that is fit to protect a high performance engine.

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Re: Anyone use Motul 10w40 break-in oil?

Post by scubasteve231 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:00 am

ZEOHSIX wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:29 pm
Im surprised no "Expert" has recommended their "speed secret" Rotella oil......Im a big fan of Rotella......in my diesel pick up :)
Use of diesel rated oils was big right around 2007 when the API oil specifications put limits on ZDDP for passenger car oils and the cam lobe wipe-out stories started circulating. All the boutique break in oils and high ZDDP oils hadn't quite come along just yet.

Everyone went straight for the 15W-40 diesel oil at the time, myself included. The CI-4 rated oil had tons of ZDDP and it was perfect for a high performance engine, and cheap too. Then the CJ-4 rating then came along and killed the ZDDP levels shortly after. After that there wasn't much incentive to use the diesel rated oil, though it was still better than the passenger car oil on the shelf at the time. Now the CK-4 rating is out, not sure what the ZDDP limits are on that but I'm guessing it's not good. Ford has refused to certify CK-4 oils for use in their current model year diesel engines if that is any clue.

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Re: Anyone use Motul 10w40 break-in oil?

Post by Cubic_Cleveland » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:53 am

scubasteve231 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:49 am
The big question to ask is "what additive pack does a break in oil have, that a regular oil doesn't, that will make a difference during the break in period?" I've never seen any solid tests or studies that prove a certain additive pack helps with break-in. Flat tappet cams require adequate ZDDP levels for their entire life span, so that is no different either. Honestly, I think the ZDDP level reduction that happened around 2007 and all the cam lobe wipe-out stories that surfaced during that time opened up a whole new market for oil companies to sell a "special" higher profit margin oil.

I think that the cylinder wall finish, and how the engine is run during the first hours of operation would make the most difference.

During break-in, wear metals will be higher than normal. I think that quickly removing these particles from the oil could be more beneficial than any "special" additive pack. Drain plug and filter magnets may help pull those metals out the oil quicker. A filter with synthetic media that can flow more and filter better than paper would be beneficial. More particles pulled out of the oil, and more oil flowing through the filter. Maybe even block the bypass and run a non bypass filter to make sure ALL of the oil is filtered, if possible or easily accomplished. A filter like a Wix XP, Fram XG/Ultra, or Mobil 1 all have synthetic media. Change the oil and filter immediately after the break in period, of course.

Honestly, I think any quality oil, or especial one with a virgin oil analysis that shows a strong and performance oriented additive pack would make a fine break in oil. Expensive break in oils are probably just that, a good quality oil that is fit to protect a high performance engine.
It’s not so much the additives they have, it’s the detergents they don’t have that make a difference. Detergents are basically doing the opposite of the anti-wear additives. The anti-wear additives try to form a protective layer, the detergents try to break everything down and clean it all away.

New engines and race engines should be clean/well maintained, so they don’t need detergents (plus they tend to foam more) which is why a lot of break in oil and racing oil is the same formulation. Diesel oils generally have high detergent additives because they dirty the oil more, and don’t rpm anywhere near a decent petrol engine so don’t create as much foam. Diesel oils are not good petrol race engine oils period.

Personally I use Driven oils, I’ve spoken to Lake Speed Jr and believe he knows way more about oil than I do as well, plus I like his approach. The best advice I can give is find an oil that works well for you and your program, that doesn’t change formulation overnight on the quiet, and find an oil that works for you without having to add a bottle of something else. If you have to add things to the oil your using, your using the wrong oil!

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