keeper mystery

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cgarb
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keeper mystery

Post by cgarb » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:27 pm

I have a set of SBF heads I'm in the middle of assembling right now. I have the springs, keepers and retainers which are used and looked good. Not knowing what my installed height was going to work out at and wanting to run a locator under the spring I purchased a set of +.050 keeper so If I needed had some adjustment. I assemble the keepers and retainers the used stuff and have 1.850 under the keeper. I think this will be fine for what I need, but when I put the +.050 keepers in the retainer stays pretty much the same height. You can see the difference in the groove placement and by all means it appears about .050" difference. I do notice that something weird is going on because when you put the keepers on the valve with no retainer and pinch them on the valve groove with your fingers one side wont move up and down but the other half will move up and down about .020". When you pull them tight with the retainer it looks like one keeper is higher in the retainer than the other. These I believe are headed for the trash can. Anyone else seen anything like that happen?

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Re: keeper mystery

Post by MadBill » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:58 pm

Sounds like the two keepers are not a match. The loose one is probably a mis-build or for a different stem diameter. Do you have more than two, so that you can verify?
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Re: keeper mystery

Post by cgarb » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:11 pm

Yes, I will swap them out and try another set and see what I come up with when I get back to it. Either way I'm short a keeper. I hope the standard one work out which they should by my rough calculations.

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Re: keeper mystery

Post by ProPower engines » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:59 pm

Are you using a proper height mic??? If not the measurement will be off depending on the method being used.
Since it is very hard to get an accurate measurement using a caliper of just a gauge rod as the retainer will rock back and forth when supported in 1 place only.

As for the locks check every lock you have using the same valve and retainer it will be more consistent as these parts can vary a couple thousands as they are mass produced. If you are using the 7 degree keepers its not uncommon to find a mis match of a few different keepers in a box of 32 as I see that happen with the comp stuff customers bring in.
Are you using the cheaper stamped keepers or a set of machined keepers??. The machined are much more accurate then the stamped keeper and rarely if ever would find a mis match in the same package.

It sounds like you are just using a 7 degrees retainer and keepers is that correct??
if you need retainers and locks do yourself a favor and upgrade to the 10 degree stuff. its the same cost and much better quality and strength and even the cheaper stuff is 1000 times better then the 7 degree stuff.
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Re: keeper mystery

Post by cgarb » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:45 am

The original locks are machined. The new ones are "forged"...lol. Or a fancy way of saying stamped. Competition products house brand so I'm probably going to say it's a quality problem. I've had decent luck using the bulk stamped locks from pioneer my local shop sells so I figured these would be decent also. No such luck. Like I said, if the machined locks work they will be getting used over. They look perfect.

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Re: keeper mystery

Post by cgarb » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:57 am

A 3/8ths lock in with the 11/32's does seem to make sense. I will be sure to look them over good before I give them a pitch.

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Re: keeper mystery

Post by ProPower engines » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:09 am

cgarb wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:57 am
A 3/8ths lock in with the 11/32's does seem to make sense. I will be sure to look them over good before I give them a pitch.
Seen that more then times then I can count. Or a std and +/- 50 in the same package
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Re: keeper mystery

Post by Geoff2 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:42 am

I have used a few sets of + 050 keepers & they rarely add the full 050, more like 030-040". Seems like the + 050 figure is based on the std keepers of the same brand.

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Re: keeper mystery

Post by mag2555 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:26 am

I can't at the moment recall what brand they where, but in a package of 32 3/8" keepers I once got a 11/32" thrown in for fun!

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Re: keeper mystery

Post by MadBill » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:26 pm

I got two half sets set of "plus 50" Comp locks last year. The 11/32" were fine but the 3/8" ones bumped the retainers up by over 0.100", leaving the the rockers hitting the retainers... #-o
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Re: keeper mystery

Post by cgarb » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:14 pm

Ended up needing the +.050 keepers, never did figure out what was the deal. They all looked like a 7 deg 11/32 keeper that had the same +.050 height. They just didn't fit the valve that good. They had a pinch mark at the top of the keeper. I just didn't like the way they felt and acted when I pulled the retainer tight. Canned the whole lot of them and put a set of Erson +.050 keepers in the local shop sold me. They looked and felt much better. Lesson learned, don't buy cheap locks...lol.

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