Best engine??

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Powertrip
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Re: Best engine??

Post by Powertrip »

MichaelThompson wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:06 am Okay I admit it, I'm biased but I think I can make a case for the Lima 385 series Ford engine.

Introduced in 1968, with work having started in about 1965 the big Fords incorporated much of what Ford was learning during the "Total Performance" era. Not the least of which were its tunnel ports and shallow angle canted valves.

The big Ford has the architecture that others only dream about. Wide crankcase, ample deck height, big diameter camshaft up higher in the block.

Even the 10 headbolt system is good since Ford did it right b spacing them in such a way as to provide maximum clamping force with a minimum of bore distortion.

Even the large conn rod journals are begging to be offset ground to give you 500 easy cubic inches.

I'm not even talking about the fancy Cobra Jet or Boss stuff, I'm referring to run of the mill 429-460 stuff that when rubbed on can take you to 700 horsepower.

Try that with any other engine you can buy for 125 bucks.
The 429 - 460 Ford series are great designs from the factory hard to beat for Bang for the Buck.
The price of progress is trouble.
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Re: Best engine??

Post by DanE1 »

IDT-572 wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:02 pm I cant believe the Dooe-R Ford big block head hasn't been brought up. Some were talking 990's on a .100 over 454.

Well a good set of ported SCJ's will flow over 400 cfm and in the right hands 410-415 un welded no filler.

Put these on a 4.500 bore 4 bolt main Dove A block, with a stock 3.850 stroke oem cast crank = 490 inches.

Big bore, short stroke, and with the correct roller cam, I am sure it will make power with any BBC 990 deal out there.

Around here the truck pulls are ruled by Ford in the 470 inch oem block and head classes.

Thing is you cant compare, 70's muscle to todays engines.............. [-X

As IDT-572 has said above, and in addition, I would offset grind the stock 3.85" stroke crank to 4.2", use a Ford factory rod from a 240" six cylinder engine (6.7947"), a flat top piston of 1.4" at "0" deck for 14 to1 CR and a [534] cubic inch engine.

I have used the 4.2" off set ground stock crank with the 240" six cylinder rod and it held up to hard usage.

The engine described above would be hard for any other stock block, stock crank, stock head combination to stand up to.
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Re: Best engine??

Post by Newold1 »

You gotta be kidding me! A stock ( really stock) BBC ZL1 427 factory issued engine will blow that stock 429-460 "In the Weeds!" Dude!
How's that for bench rac'in talk! :lol:
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Re: Best engine??

Post by fordified »

Geoff2 wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:19 am I don't know if a 'ton of R&D' was done on the 426 Hemi. If that really was the case, then that would be SMART, not dumb.
Since the word 'Go' was given by Chrysler Head Office in July 1963 to design the Hemi & have it ready & running for the Feb 1964 Daytona 500, where it won the first 4 places, I'd say Chrysler did a fantastic engineering job in a short lead time to make the engine reliable and....a winner! The rest is history...

I did read that the Hemis were 'loafing' along at 6800 rpm while the 427 Fords had to be spun to 7200 rpm to be competitive.
Look up NHRA Hemi Challenge. The Hemis have their own class. A TON of R&D work has been done to them by the best in the business. It's a very high dollar class and those guys are very serious about winning.

The Hemis leave at 6800 rpm. They pass the stripe over 9000 rpm.

For your viewing pleasure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px63daOXZl0
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Re: Best engine??

Post by Casper393W »

I'm a die hard Ford guy but looking back at history.... The Hemi dominated NASCAR, and in Drag Racing... You don't see any BBC Top Fuel engines now do you...

If the BBC was so great, history would prove it so...

Just my 2 cents

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Re: Best engine??

Post by rfoll »

I can take my pick of BBCs on craigslist for under $500. How many 426 hemi engines are on there?
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Re: Best engine??

Post by pdq67 »

rfoll wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:18 pm I can take my pick of BBCs on craigslist for under $500. How many 426 hemi engines are on there?
OK..

How many 426 Hemi's were sold total vs 427 BBC's total to the driving public??

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Re: Best engine??

Post by Morgo »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_Type_R For cid/hp the Honda is hard to beat (ablsolute hp not counting)
And Toyota 3S-GE Blacktop BEAMS is quite high too.JDM only so it might be strange for most but anyway fine engine.
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Re: Best engine??

Post by Steve.k »

IDT-572 wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:02 pm I cant believe the Dooe-R Ford big block head hasn't been brought up. Some were talking 990's on a .100 over 454.

Well a good set of ported SCJ's will flow over 400 cfm and in the right hands 410-415 un welded no filler.

Put these on a 4.500 bore 4 bolt main Dove A block, with a stock 3.850 stroke oem cast crank = 490 inches.

Big bore, short stroke, and with the correct roller cam, I am sure it will make power with any BBC 990 deal out there.

Around here the truck pulls are ruled by Ford in the 470 inch oem block and head classes.

Thing is you cant compare, 70's muscle to todays engines.............. [-X
We did a dove block out to 557 cubes with iron cj heads made 845@6700 for mud truck deal. Not bad for ol cast head. Some guys get close to 600 cubes with that block.However what the Fe ford did at lemans has to put it up there fairly high!! It was said before ford took 427 off simulators it would do two 24hr lemans back to back before any failures.I will say the new two stroke etecs from rotax are very impressive and easy on fuel also.
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Re: Best engine??

Post by hoffman900 »

Morgo wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:05 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_Type_R For cid/hp the Honda is hard to beat (ablsolute hp not counting)
And Toyota 3S-GE Blacktop BEAMS is quite high too.JDM only so it might be strange for most but anyway fine engine.
There are plenty of engines that are much better than the US Domestic V8s the OP was looking for.

For hp/cc potential (and weight), it'll clearly be any of the Japanese I4 sportbike engines. I know of a turbo 660cc I4 (Suzuki) making over 330hp in road race trim. But shh..
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Re: Best engine??

Post by Steve.k »

Heres a top ten list by another group. http://www.onallcylinders.com/tag/top-10-engines/ Kinda interesting.
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Re: Best engine??

Post by Truckedup »

hoffman900 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:13 pm
Morgo wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:05 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_Type_R For cid/hp the Honda is hard to beat (ablsolute hp not counting)
And Toyota 3S-GE Blacktop BEAMS is quite high too.JDM only so it might be strange for most but anyway fine engine.
There are plenty of engines that are much better than the US Domestic V8s the OP was looking for.

For hp/cc potential (and weight), it'll clearly be any of the Japanese I4 sportbike engines. I know of a turbo 660cc I4 (Suzuki) making over 330hp in road race trim. But shh..
The European bike engines are also impressive...Ducati gets near 3 HP per cubic inch on stock two cylinder engines that meet emissions and noise standards.. Aprilla and Rotex are similar... And then there's BMW 4 cylinder sport bike engine as powerful as anything in their class...Currently, there are about 5 newer bike models that can run high 9's at near 150 mph in the 1/4 in stock form with a skilled rider and about another 20 models than can run in the 10's..These machines are not for the faint of heart but are more controllable during full power than any rear drive 10 second car on the street..
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Re: Best engine??

Post by hoffman900 »

Oh absolutely. I just meant potential and that potential is just really tied into the fact you can boost the I4s a lot easier.

The single cylinder motocross bikes are making near 2.55hp/ci in race trim. They’re tractable and are abused terribly.

Most of those 9 and 10 second machines will cost you about as much as a hot crate motor and a good transmission for most cars. They’ll also get you around a road course really freaking fast if you have the skills. Then get you to the cafe afterwards. And all under warranty.
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Re: Best engine??

Post by Steve.k »

The current rotax 850 is 165 hp. That equates to 3.23 hp/ cubic inch. And a miser on fuel.
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Re: Best engine??

Post by Ken_Parkman »

A set of rules for discussion could be power capability of a commonly available production platform from back in the day. No question the modern stuff is worlds ahead than the old stuff, but it's more fun to improve old stuff. Also no question the low production race upgrades will make more power, but the average guy couldn't have those.

With the above rules my vote would be for the BBF 385 as a big block, and the AMC as a small block. Obviously a BBC is a tremendous engine, but there is a lot of BBF's making huge power with basic factory parts (relatively) cheap. As a small block there could be an argument for the Cleveland Ford, and obviously those heads can make big power. They just needed a better block to bolt to. Cause AMC could not afford multiple engine packages every 390 and 401 got the good block, crank, and rods, and the heads are an excellent wedge design for back in the day, way ahead of the SBC/F/M. The 390 SS/C AMX's are always fast although those were low production with trick intakes, but the block/crank/rods were the same. Stock blocks and cranks have been over 1000 hp, so the basic strength is there and iron heads go over 600 hp with (relative) ease.
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