Aluminum Rod material?

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Mark O'Neal
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by Mark O'Neal »

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:23 pm Read this

https://www.google.com/patents/US6502480
It doesn't say who it was assigned to. Was that the C&A patent?
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by In-Tech »

Code: Select all

Inventor
    Bruce K. Walker
    Raymal Childs
Original Assignee
    Bruce K. Walker
    Raymal Childs
Priority date
    1998-11-16
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by Mark O'Neal »

SupStk wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:57 pm Wonder how much temperature a rod really sees in a drag race or actually any application? Certainly not much over oil temp which would be way under critical limits.

Rocky Childs did a lot of testing on this subject and passed to to us years and years ago. Bear in mind I'm relying on my memory here. We wasn't paying me enough to write it down.

7075-t6 has 75,000 tensile @ ambient temp, and 27,000 @ 320 degrees oil temp. A SB Chev, at the time, would hit 280/300 and the drop was down to about 68,000.

Once you go past 300 tensile strength drops precipitously.
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by Mark O'Neal »

In-Tech wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:31 am

Code: Select all

Inventor
    Bruce K. Walker
    Raymal Childs
Original Assignee
    Bruce K. Walker
    Raymal Childs
Priority date
    1998-11-16

That's what I thought. The patent on that material was held by the forging company, and he suggested it's use to Bruce. He told Goodwin the same thing.

and then trouble ensued.......or so I was told.
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by pdq67 »

pdq67 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:32 am Anybody know what Jager aluminum rods are made out of?

Supposedly they don't, "work harden(?)". or, "stretch(?)", with use like most aluminum rods do??

I don't know, just throwing this out here...

pdq67
Again is all.

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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks »

Mark O'Neal wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:44 am
In-Tech wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:31 am

Code: Select all

Inventor
    Bruce K. Walker
    Raymal Childs
Original Assignee
    Bruce K. Walker
    Raymal Childs
Priority date
    1998-11-16

That's what I thought. The patent on that material was held by the forging company, and he suggested it's use to Bruce. He told Goodwin the same thing.

and then trouble ensued.......or so I was told.

Unless I have it mixed up with another one, this is what AJPE was using on nitro rods when his were the only game in town that worked.
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks »

Momus wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:35 am
SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:23 pm Read this

https://www.google.com/patents/US6502480
Interesting. No vendors available for that material according to Mat Web. May be another experimental material that is good in compression but severely anistropic and or only produced in 10000 Kg mill quantities at many times the price of 7075.

The patent also expired 3 years ago due to non payment.
IIRC it was available from a Russian supplier at one time and not all that expensive.

There is a lot of material and metal treatment science going on there that never makes it around the world much.
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by engineguyBill »

Rocky Childs held the rights to the Childs and Albert aluminum rods, even after the business was sold to Bruce Walker and the forgings came from Alcoa. As I recall, the C & A aluminum rod business was sold to Connie Kalitta shortly before Rocky's death.
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by Truckedup »

Mark O'Neal wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:36 am
7075-t6 has 75,000 tensile @ ambient temp, and 27,000 @ 320 degrees oil temp. A SB Chev, at the time, would hit 280/300 and the drop was down to about 68,000.

Once you go past 300 tensile strength drops precipitously.
300F degrees? you're taking road racing or oval track?
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by peejay »

Geoff2 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:59 am With the whittling down the weight of modern steel rods, while still maintaining strength, there seems little reason to me to risk using 'Kaboom' alum rods...
Aren't they kinder to the bottom end when high cylinder pressures are expected?

I was a little surprised when I found out that WRC engines used (used to use) aluminum rods, but this was in a highly turbocharged 400- 500ft-lb torque 2 liter endurance engine application. RPM limited by the intake restrictor so effectively no power over 5000-6000rpm, they weren't using them for RPM capability!
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by Mark O'Neal »

Truckedup wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:56 am
Mark O'Neal wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:36 am
7075-t6 has 75,000 tensile @ ambient temp, and 27,000 @ 320 degrees oil temp. A SB Chev, at the time, would hit 280/300 and the drop was down to about 68,000.

Once you go past 300 tensile strength drops precipitously.
300F degrees? you're taking road racing or oval track?
No...lol. I'm talking about 300 degrees. It really doesn't matter much how you get there. But what I typed was not what I meant. Little Chevy's about 200. Giant journals. like the Windsor for the 280/300.
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Re: Aluminum Rod material?

Post by Sparksalot »

Metallurgy advances like paint drying, it happens but you don't notice it if you aren't involved in it. All of the alloys mentioned in this thread are old and well known, some are not available anymore due to a limited market for them.

Ranging wildly astray from the OP query is more current info about top shelf aluminum structural materials. It comes from research done in industry and academia worldwide for obvious reasons: it's not for go fast cars.

Current UTS levels are in the 95 ksi range, special processes produce above 110 ksi.

Now the engineers here can start the specific strength, etc. comparisons.
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