bad hyd roller lifters

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LCaverly
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bad hyd roller lifters

Post by LCaverly »

Recently had a rash of hyd roller lifter problems on my dyno the last 4 or 5 hr lifter engines were very loud and some ended up collapsing and not returning. A variety of engines ,351 c, pontiac 455, pontiac 400, and sb chevy. Have any of you run into similar problems?
Len C
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by ProPower engines »

What brand were they??
There is some off shore lifters for lots of engines of unknown origin and quality being sold on ebay and other sites now that I have seen have issues.;
Also the lifters from C#$%^ are of questionable quality I am told they are made in the same place as the others by a tech guy there.I will not use any of their lifters!!! Too many issues to need to waste time changing after a dyno run.

But the real question is how much spring pressures are you running??
Most stock equivalent lifters and retro fit's suffer from bleed down because they have debris left over inside them.
Any lifter that I can disassemble I will do so and clean out the crap as reassemble.
Its a PITA but compared to swapping a set after the engine has been run I feel its worth the time.
Any retro fits I use Isky/Johnson and have used Howards and no issue to date. I try to use either Johnson or Delphi for drop in type lifter applications.
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LCaverly
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by LCaverly »

These aren't my builds, but are from a local shop and I also questioned the spring pressures I thought they were a little higher than needed but still should have worked. suppliers were from some of the names you mentioned, most were drop in replacement used with a spider.
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by Walter R. Malik »

I would bet that the lifters were the regular street hydraulic roller lifters from Comp.
After these kind of issues in 3 different engines using those, I will not use them again.
Their competition "short travel" lifters worked OK, though.
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by rustbucket79 »

Had a c lifter bottom and stick in an AMC and a couple others in BBC's that wouldn't pressurize, after a few hrs run time.
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by rp930 »

Morels work great.
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by racear2865 »

We have seen this for the last 5 months. We have found most in doing the initial adjustment before going on the dyno. But we have 2 different engines collapse about .100 and never return to the top on first start. As per norm, we removed and returned to our vendor and upon questioning that rep, I was told they had a small rash of this problem and was looking at changing vendors to Johnson temporarily. I wanted to eliminate that lifter right off the bat. I was told to flush all lifters before using but to no avail. Did not resolve any problems. Got another set this week. Flushed and had one to stick immediately. Those changes that were to be made, didnt happen---same brand, same problem. I now collapse all lifters and totally refill using 10w high detergent oil, trying to determine if it is trash or sloppy machining. But Im tired of the time and the problems and the cost to remove intake manifolds and the embarrassment of the engine owners.
reed
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by Racing68 »

Had two sets of Johnson lifters bad one was bb Chevy one small block. Both were stock style slow bleed. Big block were machined wrong three in the set only had one flat on the top machined. On the small block the customer did the assembly one collapsed and about half were not oiling the rockers enough and wiped out the rockers in 1000 miles.
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by ProPower engines »

As I mention ed before if you are using a drop in lifter take the time ti disassemble and check for crap inside.
I guarantee you will have the WTF is that crap in here go through your mind.
Remember these things are machine assembled and so far this year in the last 7-8 engines that were drop in roller or flat tappet I have taken the lifters apart and found small pieces left around the edge of the oil feed holes that would surely get into the check valve in the bottom of the lifter and cause it to bleed excessively or completely as well as found small particles in the bottom below the check valve as well as in the check valve which would have caused them to shit the bed right off the get go.
If for no other reason to be sure the internal parts are orientated properly.

Now I know we for the most part try to use the best parts available when building engines but no matter how hard we try we always seem to get bit in the ass by hyd. roller lifters that are the tie-bar style from time to time and if there was a way to get them without the tie bar installed to be able to check them internally easily from suppliers with out the time delay of special ordering I would do it that way.

But the bottom line is there is no lifter manufacture that has not had issues with bleed off but thats why we are here. And for those of us that have seem the issue we do all we can to avoid that problem by purchasing components by specific manufactures that seem to have less and less reported issues like this.
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by racear2865 »

ProPower engines wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:41 am As I mention ed before if you are using a drop in lifter take the time ti disassemble and check for crap inside.
I guarantee you will have the WTF is that crap in here go through your mind.
Remember these things are machine assembled and so far this year in the last 7-8 engines that were drop in roller or flat tappet I have taken the lifters apart and found small pieces left around the edge of the oil feed holes that would surely get into the check valve in the bottom of the lifter and cause it to bleed excessively or completely as well as found small particles in the bottom below the check valve as well as in the check valve which would have caused them to shit the bed right off the get go.
If for no other reason to be sure the internal parts are orientated properly.

Now I know we for the most part try to use the best parts available when building engines but no matter how hard we try we always seem to get bit in the ass by hyd. roller lifters that are the tie-bar style from time to time and if there was a way to get them without the tie bar installed to be able to check them internally easily from suppliers with out the time delay of special ordering I would do it that way.

But the bottom line is there is no lifter manufacture that has not had issues with bleed off but thats why we are here. And for those of us that have seem the issue we do all we can to avoid that problem by purchasing components by specific manufactures that seem to have less and less reported issues like this.

I would luv to disassemble them. but every set I mentioned are hyd rollers lifters with a vertical bar and you will not disassemble.
reed
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by tjs44 »

I believe the only true pontiac hyd roller lifter is the latest Comp 857S made by Shaver.The Ms are Morels and are subbed when out of the S.All other like the Morels are SBC with pontiac link bars.This has been discussed into the ground on the PY site.Tom
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by gnicholson »

Are some of you guys more apt to go with a solid roller in some of these engines?
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by ProPower engines »

I would luv to disassemble them. but every set I mentioned are hyd rollers lifters with a vertical bar and you will not disassemble.
reed
[/quote]

Thats what I was getting at.They can be had with the link bars not attached but then they need to be pressed together to swedge the pins over to hold them together.
They will sell them that way but at extra cost as well as a longer wait time to get them. At least those brands I use they have told me longer time and cost more if they are not in the production room.
Seemed silly to me but ........................
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by tjs44 »

I cant believe some of you guys are not friends of Ron and cant get a unassembled lifter off his line.The Shaver lifter is easy to identify if you have one side by side with a other brand.Tom
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Re: bad hyd roller lifters

Post by racear2865 »

Ive been using hyd roller lifters for quite some time and only now have I seen this extent of a problem. I used several sets of Delco LS lifters and only had one problem. Why, all of a sudden, we are experiencing this problem. We shouldnt have to be disassembling new lifters every time. To me that is totally unacceptable in a quality control environment that needs to exist.
reed
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