Another Header issue.

[BILL-C]

We HEAVILY modify these intakes. Peak hp at 78-7900 rpm. Big $. 50 + hp over ootb intake.

[groberts101]

We HEAVILY modify these intakes. Peak hp at 78-7900 rpm. Big $. 50 + hp over ootb intake.

No, I get that completely. Just didn't think there was enough available material to get the needed CSA to move that much mass was what I meant. How do you get into the guts of it? Cut, port,weld? Extrude hone?

It's ok if you don't specifically answer due to hard earned and protected trade secrets, I get it. Buy one from you and I can study it all I want to, right?

I just figure being like a kid and sponging up all I can get by asking questions accelerates the old learning curve, is all.

Thanks again.

[Casper393W]

The 351w Air Gap manifolds flow quite a bit more than the 302 version of it... If the rules allow you can improve on the flow a great deal by porting.. I have seen DV make those manifolds perform just as well as their Single Plane brothers! But it took probably 50 or more hrs to make happen!

I just about decided to go with the Dual Quad Air Gap on my engine because of having to deal with port matching of the spacers needed to run a 302 intake on a Windsor then match the intake to the spacer! The std. Weiand 302 Manifold had Tiny ports as you can see in the pic below

[groberts101]

The 351w Air Gap manifolds flow quite a bit more than the 302 version of it... If the rules allow you can improve on the flow a great deal by porting.. I have seen DV make those manifolds perform just as well as their Single Plane brothers! But it took probably 50 or more hrs to make happen!

I just about decided to go with the Dual Quad Air Gap on my engine because of having to deal with port matching of the spacers needed to run a 302 intake on a Windsor then match the intake to the spacer! The std. Weiand 302 Manifold had Tiny ports as you can see in the pic below

Sure thing! Plus they're considerably taller and have much steeper runner exit angles. Which of course better match up with raised roofs and angle milled heads.

This little motor is still on back burner but as you can see the Kaase P38's could easily adapt to this manifold with just a minor flange mill. Oddly enough there is massive amounts of material on the OEM intake port locations entry roof but I don't see the average joe taking advantage of it with such swaps. Since no shaft rocker is needed, I call them my "poor mans CHI head".

8.2 Kaase 351W airgap.jpg

[Casper393W]

Now that is Sexy!

I love the idea of a Cleveland head in a Windsor package!

[BILL-C]

We HEAVILY modify these intakes. Peak hp at 78-7900 rpm. Big $. 50 + hp over ootb intake.

No, I get that completely. Just didn't think there was enough available material to get the needed CSA to move that much mass was what I meant. How do you get into the guts of it? Cut, port,weld? Extrude hone?

It's ok if you don't specifically answer due to hard earned and protected trade secrets, I get it. Buy one from you and I can study it all I want to, right?

I just figure being like a kid and sponging up all I can get by asking questions accelerates the old learning curve, is all.

Thanks again.

Crazy ammounts of cutting,welding,and porting are required.FIA spec intakes are 45-50 hrs work, SVRA another 10.

[groberts101]

We HEAVILY modify these intakes. Peak hp at 78-7900 rpm. Big $. 50 + hp over ootb intake.

No, I get that completely. Just didn't think there was enough available material to get the needed CSA to move that much mass was what I meant. How do you get into the guts of it? Cut, port,weld? Extrude hone?

It's ok if you don't specifically answer due to hard earned and protected trade secrets, I get it. Buy one from you and I can study it all I want to, right?

I just figure being like a kid and sponging up all I can get by asking questions accelerates the old learning curve, is all.

Thanks again.

Crazy ammounts of cutting,welding,and porting are required.FIA spec intakes are 45-50 hrs work, SVRA another 10.

Awesome info and contribution to the subject! Thanks again, Bill.

[hoffman900]

That is one of the many different cams we use. The most advanced [ and expensive] engines use something a little different, but are not safe to sell to the average joe. Too many ways to hurt themselves! Those headers fit the stock chassis awesome. Very easy to work on the car too. The whole package is very well thought out. A few years ago one of the house cars broke a lifter saterday morning in practice at the us vintage grand prix at watkins glen 3 hours before the car had to be back out on track in qualifying race for the main event on sunday. 3 of us swapped engine and ate lunch with time to spare.

Hi Bill. Sorry for the sidetrack here.. but can you give an idea what power you guys squeek out of the 289/302's with the dual plane setup? And which manifold being used? Old Cobra style repops(forgot part #) or maybe the Edelbrock airgap?

Thanks,

Greg

PS. Inline with this threads topic.. what impact does the dual plane have on final header choice for your engines?

Seems safe to assume the dual planes sharper ve drops in the higher rpm ranges would favor slight header design changes.

The different sanctioning bodies have different engine rules. The majority of the races are run in SVRA trim, which requires performer rpm intake. Airgap version is not legal.The oe cobra style intake isn't very good compared to edelbrock. With heavily modified perf rpm equipped 289 we make 585hp and 302's make a tick over 600 on my DTS dyno. Because of the fact we are always changing intakes, we only slightly bias the header design to favor the dual plane intakes. The most important races of the year are run under SVRA rules, which require the dual planes. The single plane intake numbers are approx 15-18 hp higher . Because of the earlier power curve, many of the drivers leave the dual plane intake on for the shorter, more technical tracks even when single plane allowed. Cams are typically slightly biased for dual plane intakes also.I have a huge investment into R+D on these dual plane intakes and power drop off isn't as bad as you might think. If we ran only single plane intakes, we would run higher rpm, more gear, and need slightly different headers and cams.

For reference, a friend of mine was a 2x SCCA Div. Champ in a 2nd place start/finish at the 1970 SCCA ARRC Runoffs with a 289 Cobra in BP (original 260ci car with the worm gear steering). Finished second to a much newer '69 Corvette.

289 + .030" (293ci), stock heads and intake ported by AirFlow Research, used Crane for a lot of his camshaft work, Holley 750 with a 500 baseplate (SCCA required a specific throttle body diameter), rods / crank all had to be stock pieces (lightened and shotpeened), and an exhaust developed that produced 30hp more than the Holman & Moody side pipes. Made 340bhp.

He said the intake was really killing them as far as power goes. He was an early customer of AFR and used them up through the '70s and early '80s on projects. This would be with Ken Sperling.

[cjperformance]

I want to thank you guys for sharing your knowledge! This kinda of talk here is why I fell in love with Speed talk.
Not the bashing of people and their idea's!

I feel much better now about my headers here is a pic of what I will be running

They'll work fine. I just dont like the reducers the header mobs supply to go from a 3" collector to 2.5" or less for pipe after the collector. If you have to reduce from collector diameter into a full system i always like to at least put in a H, X , etc prior to the reducer.

[exhausted]

What are Kaase P38 heads?

[GARY C]

What are Kaase P38 heads?

http://jonkaaseracingengines.com/html/k ... heads.html

[cjperformance]

What are Kaase P38 heads?

They are a canted valve SBF head.

[exhausted]

Ok, so do they require custom headers or are they dimensionaly match a std head?

[cjperformance]

Ok, so do they require custom headers or are they dimensionaly match a std head?

Looking at the pic in the link they have a regular SBF port and bolt pattern as well as the common wide header bolt pattern. No detail on port dimention in that link.

[GARY C]

Ok, so do they require custom headers or are they dimensionaly match a std head?

It doesn't say if they are raised, all it says is... "Accommodates original equipment intake manifolds and exhaust headers for convenience."
http://jonkaaseracingengines.com/html/k ... heads.html