Cylinder sleeve question.

[gn69z28]

I have a Deutz diesel block. Customer supplied sleeves. Block isn't sleeved from the factory so I have to bore for the sleeves. Sleeves are finished honed to size straight out of the box with a wall thickness of .060 and flanged at the top. How much press fit would you give these sleeves being so thin? I wanted to just bore the block .020 oversize and forget the sleeves but customer swears it won't run right unless it's STD bore. BTW sleeves came with no paperwork.

[ProPower engines]

What is the actual finished bore size the sleeve is being inserted into?
Does it have a recess required in the top of the bores to retain the sleeves when they are installed??
Are the sleeves chrome plated in the inside where the piston travels???

As an example Perkins uses a similar style of sleeve and they are from .001" to .003" interference fit.but you can put a lube on the bore when installing as they are about the same thickness.
They have a counter bore at the top of the bore to retain the sleeves when installed but how much protrusion you need is another question that will need to be answered.

What is the engine used in? Agricultural or Marine/Industrial application are the most common

[grandsport51]

These folks seem to offer great info and parts!
https://www.foleyengines.com/tech-tip-1 ... -2011-die/
Dave B

[modok]

I'd go .002" press, MAYBE .003 if I suspect the sleeve is not very good. You can check the wall thickness around and get an idea how consistent they are.
A lot of pre-finished sleeves I find a lot of taper and out of round when installed.
More interference fit gives you a chance to hone it.

[cgarb]

Iron to iron .002 should be plenty of press. If you were going into aluminum I would want some more because of the difference in expansion rates.

[gn69z28]

I'll try to answer the questions asked. It's a water cooled engine. At least I think it's water cooled. I'm not 100 percent sure.It's not a marine engine. Its a tractor or some type of equipment engine.There is no recess in top of block for the flange. Nothing protrudes from top of block. Top deck is flat. It's not a chrome plateted sleeve. Inner diameter of sleeve is 3.700 This block didn't come with sleeves from the factory. I've had some Lehman blocks that you could almost slide sleeves in by hand because they couldn't be honed. It would have been nice if the sleeves came with some paperwork.

[grandsport51]

Tons of Deutz info available
See link and post model pls.
http://www.blueprintdiesel.co.nz/Spare+ ... umber.html

Dave B

[gn69z28]

There is no engine identification plate on block and no stamped numbers. I'm starting to think that it's air cooled. I'm also starting to think the customer/owner needs to produce some information or come pick it up.

[ProPower engines]

I'll try to answer the questions asked. It's a water cooled engine. At least I think it's water cooled. I'm not 100 percent sure.It's not a marine engine. Its a tractor or some type of equipment engine.There is no recess in top of block for the flange. Nothing protrudes from top of block. Top deck is flat. It's not a chrome plateted sleeve. Inner diameter of sleeve is 3.700 This block didn't come with sleeves from the factory. I've had some Lehman blocks that you could almost slide sleeves in by hand because they couldn't be honed. It would have been nice if the sleeves came with some paperwork.

This seems to be a L4 engine with approx. 190 CID. They were widely used in tractors and other agricultural equipment.
That said you can't go by what the engine type is per say but what details you really need is what the engine is used in.

3 engine models the bore size matched are F4l2011 BF4L2011 BF4M1012 These all share the same bore size but the bore length is the question because of the liners you have no hand whether or not they are the same length.

If they are flanged at the top this is common for a repair sleeve but if the engine originally came sleeved but some may not have been sleeved and the only piston options limit you to the 3.700 bore diameter.

You may have better luck if you know what machine the engine is for and get serial numbers from it them maybe you can contact A&I parts to see if there is any options for parts.

the part that is the PITA is it is an older engine model and with all AGRi. engines the parts offered alot of times are to repair them and not specifically for them.

If you can ID the machine you will have better luck.

[modok]

Why NOT run .002 press rather than zero??

The only disadvantage I can think of is the customer will have a hard time changing the sleeves next time......not your problem. If they have the proper tools it's no problem, if they don't they are doomed anyway. So, I'd have no worries about that.
What I would be worried about is the sleeve protrusion specification, possibly the head gasket is different for sleeved model. It may be .000-.002, or it may be .002-.004
I would not want to have to guess.

[cgarb]

It ran without sleeves before...couldn't he just bore to leave a few thousandths to stick out then skim flush with the deck surface? As long as the sleeves were seated fully and didn't drop lower after you skim them and torque the head, I wouldn't see the need to have them stick up.

[ProPower engines]

Rather then using very thin sleeves you could just use a conventional sleeve and install it as normal and finish for what ever ring finish is required.
But those thin sleeves must have a brand name on them why not just call the manufacture and ask as they are made for a specific engine by them they will have the press fit requirements for the block.
But if a counter bore is required its no big deal it is like boring more cylinders for charge out time.
Just charge him $800 which is what I charge for a Perkins or Komatsu of similar size bores. Its good money for about 3/4 of a days worth of work

[modok]

Having a flange means the cylinders and deck need to be perpendicular, making that happen and counter boring for the flange are indeed additional work. Straight sleeves are so much easier.

[ProPower engines]

A couple other things to consider is
1
If the sleeves are finished to a specific size out of the box they rely on a perfect block for them to be reinstalled into.
Like the Perkins the bores have a counter bore at the top and are much like the liners your customer has supplied but
99 times out of a 100 they must be touched up for size and straight because the press fit is likely more because of distortion in some places making it necessary to finish hone the liners.
You will have a similar issue as the ID of the liners will shrink in size when pressed into the block thus requiring they be finish honed
2
Is contact the customer and suggest that he go with a conventional sleeve which will make the job easier if having to cut counter bores in the block is an issue for you to do but if you decide to do counter bores I suggest the bores be chamfered at the top at the smaller diameter at 60 degrees. Many sleeved blocks use the 60 degree bore chamfer to allow the liners to be seated fully without any interference on the top of the bore which can crush or crack the liner when seated depending on the protrusion needed which from what I see on this engine is .003" to .005" max