Points ignition vs electronic

[statsystems]

When I saw the tread title I thought I'd been transported back in time 30 years to when point were still used on performance engines

I know I didn't use points 30 years ago.

[gruntguru]

If points are lighting the fire consistently, there will be no power increase from using a higher energy spark. That's a big "if" though.

[MadBill]

One issue with points is that if you run enough spring pressure to turn over say 7,000 RPM with a single-point set V8, rubbing block wear insidiously retards the timing.

[hoodeng]

As has been pointed out by a number of members ,spark energy and accuracy [spark scatter] from an over the counter electronic ignition is better than any OEM points assembly , high end and expensive magnetos have arguably enough spark energy to ignite under high load conditions no question .
But here's the kicker , why would you spend the money on a high end magneto when a relatively cheap electronic exists? As for back to back testing with both systems pitted against each other,any variance would be seen as a victory of one system over the other,whereas the simplicity of setup and consistent performance of the electronic is beyond reproach.
Like you Truckedup my experience with British twins and for me triples goes back to the early 70's , the regular trek to the dealer for points, condensers and screws was repetitive ,trimming up the ignition with cam screws made of butter got me thinking even then ,'there must be a better way' .
Then along came Boyer , this gave me an opportunity to hurl all of the points assemblies as far as i could , the first thing i noticed was that the bike started , i know this sounds strange , but kick starting a Bonneville at 2am in the middle of winter [quite mild here,only a couple of days a year where it gets cold ] trying to get home for a couple of hours sleep before work, gave me thinking time as to how best get rid of the ignition number one ,and the carbs number two.
Moving forward ,the development of modern adjustable electronics made even the best of the early ones look little better than non wearing points.
That said ,our age gives us the ability to observe the history of the technology of the day moving forward over the years ,we have seen the transitioning of the Kettering system of magnetos , to points systems , early fixed electronics , programmed 2D electronics to multiple sensor input 3D map electronics .
There are a number of very good electronic systems out there today , your Pazon system in your application is hard to beat , in my street application the Tri-Spark system on my triples is a god send ,first kick starting ,instant idle !!!!!!!! both of these things were just a pipe dream when the bikes were new.

Cheers.

[xanadu]

Recently did a 408 cleveland and on the engine dyno, there was no power gain with 3 different types of ignition.
single points / dual points and Pertronix. But i guess each one is a just a switch for the coil.

[DrillDawg]

When everything is right the only thing that will test any of these setups is rpm/compression/lean mixture.

[MadBill]

Based on tests reported by David Vizard some years back, I have used the Okada Projects Plasma Booster on two engines running MSD 6AL-2 systems. (It's a two-wire hook up to which I added alligator clips for quick A-B-A changeover.) The gains were small, ~ 5 hp on a 12.5:1 630 HP 308 SBF and 8-9 on a 10.5:1 700 HP 496 BBC, but repeatable.

[hoodeng]

In a peak horsepower test the results between ignition systems in sound condition very similar results can be observed ,as either of the ignition systems have enough VA/VR to ensure complete combustion and they are in a full advance position of the same point.

It is starting and transition rpm curve accuracy that are among the big selling points of digital.

Cheers.

[modok]

Points acting as the trigger for transistor ignition will always work better than driving the coil with the points alone.

[Geoff2]

Someone mentioned that Grumpy used points & won many races. He might have won more races if he had used electronic ign......

You just cannot beat HEI for most performance/hobby applications. Not sure if it has been mentioned, but HEI & other elec igns allow larger spark plug gaps, for a greater chance of igniting the A/F mix.

[pamotorman]

i used this dwell extender for years on race cars. it electronically closes the points as soon as they open for increased dwell. with shimmed points 7500 RPMs was no problem

[mk e]

You just cannot beat HEI for most performance/hobby applications. Not sure if it has been mentioned, but HEI & other elec igns allow larger spark plug gaps, for a greater chance of igniting the A/F mix.

That's the key.

Just swapting out an electronic replacement in a points system gives you more repeatability, But With but tuned there is no reason in the would to expect a go difference.

But adapting to a goid electronic ignition SYSTEM cam make all the difference. Years ago I roadraced an H-D, it had a then state of the art electronic ignition and made right about 90rwhp. In my spares box I kept the old points ignition, just in case and one day the need arose and I was forced to install it at the track.....it stopped pulling 1500 rpm early. Back home on the dyno i was down 20rwhp, back to the electrinic and back to 90rwhp. It was night and day and the points went in the trash that day and that was the last time I've touched anything with points. Lesson learned.

Not to say the points system couldn't be improved for a better result but getting the levels of spark energy with points that you can get with electronic is nearly impossible...without adding electronic components to the system.

[DrillDawg]

I think you can simply trigger a 35 dollar aftermarket HEI module with points and have the best of both worlds.

[hoodeng]

The problem with points/condenser system is that they burn up when trying to trigger a coil bellow 5 ohms impedance,with a 3 ohm coil, points last very little time due to the triggering current being quite high .Using points to trigger a drive transistor although quite capable of switching a higher current, still has the wearing of heels and pivots plus the inaccuracy of a mechanical advance[if utilized] to contend with.

A point not covered is the much greater spark energy in joules that a digital system can deliver with an appropriate coil, some guys when observing a spark plug ionize [spark] think that that nice big blue flash is an indicator of a good ignition ,this is not the case , the audible click is the human sensory indicator that is mandatory of a good ignition ,the big spark is just a plug donating its construct materials to its surrounding environment ,but a strong click sound ,even if the visible spark looks like a little lightening bolt would get my hands rubbing together as the ignition to use.
Plugs wear very little when they are not making big colored flashes.

Cheers.

[Truckedup]

The problem with points/condenser system is that they burn up when trying to trigger a coil bellow 5 ohms impedance,with a 3 ohm coil, points last very little time due to the triggering current being quite high .Using points to trigger a drive transistor although quite capable of switching a higher current, still has the wearing of heels and pivots plus the inaccuracy of a mechanical advance[if utilized] to contend with.

Cheers.

From my experience on GM points, the normal system resistance is about 3-3.5 ohms..1.5 for the coil and 1.5 to 2 ohms for the ballast or resistance wire...points life for a moderate performance engine was about 10k miles...These values were measured without the engine running, do they change when it's running?