Rookie racer questions

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

1969Corvette
New Member
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:49 pm
Location:

Rookie racer questions

Post by 1969Corvette »

I am looking forward to racing IMCA Modified next year at my local 1/3 mile dirt track. I have a few questions: Would a crate motor or claim engine be best for a rookie racer? (As a grandstand watcher, Id prefer claim over crate) What track conditions dictate the type of engine you will use? Why do crate engines get lower RPMs then a claim engine? When you replace a claim engine to a crate engine (and vice versa), do you have to change the gear ratios? What gear ratios are typically ran on a 1/3 mile track? Because I have no experience of racing, I plan on going to the practices my local tracks have. I did some research and found that claim engines can be any cubic inch as long as they are unaltered and can be used in a passenger car. And 604 crate engines get less horsepower. And I also found that claim engines are more expensive, but I'm not sure why.
ProPower engines
Guru
Guru
Posts: 8686
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:16 pm
Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by ProPower engines »

I raced IMCA for 16 years and after its all said and done the cars are all motor and no tire.
Trying to hook up a power house is hard with the tires they run and most guys in the north west have gone to the crate engine. I know lots of guys that have deep wallets and no trouble spending 40K for a claimer class stove but they don't cause the 604 engine works out better. Ya can't drive with the tires on fire and for a new driver something a bit tamer that will get the job done with the right set up and gear and lots of practice.

Also for the guy just starting in the class it saves the big engine bills if you are running decent and won't let it go in a claim.
But they work and they are cheaper then building one to start out with.
Every guy figures he has some stuff thats good to use but if you are going to build a reliable 500 hp it needs maintenance every week and if that is not your bag the crate is the way to go.

In all the years I ran we had more HP then I could put down and after many years of gear swaps between heats and features
every time we lost to the claim I build a tamer piece and after loosing many it got to the point the car was unbeatable with less and more practice and attention paid to set up consistency
Real Race Cars Don't Have Doors
1969Corvette
New Member
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:49 pm
Location:

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by 1969Corvette »

Thanks for a reply. I was wondering what maintenance has to be done on an open motor every week (Change spark plugs, change oil, etc).
Krooser
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:14 pm
Location: Tropical Wisconsin

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by Krooser »

1969Corvette wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:05 pm Thanks for a reply. I was wondering what maintenance has to be done on an open motor every week (Change spark plugs, change oil, etc).
Weekly...nut and bolt everything. Check fluids. Clean air filter. Set timing. No difference open to crate.

Two or three weeks... Adjust valves. Oil change. More often if on alky. Plus the weekly routine.

Crate...change valve springs every 20-30 nights.

Others will chime in with their routine. Guys spend more time on tire prep these days than engine maintenance.
..
Honored to be a member of the Luxemburg Speedway Hall of Fame Class of 2019
ZIGGY
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:15 am
Location: Dallas, Texas

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by ZIGGY »

Run the valves and look at the plugs after every race event. Early warning when something's going away.
Amen on tire prep. And, no offense, but since apparently you are intending to jump into a dirt
modified with no previous racing experience, try not to tear up too many other guys' stuff while
you're learning.
(Krooser - think the Mastersbilt might be ready in a year or two?)
pamotorman
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2802
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:55 pm
Location:

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by pamotorman »

run a vacuum operated secondary carb as the power will come on smoother and that is important with a new driver and it will also work better on a car with limited traction.
1969Corvette
New Member
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:49 pm
Location:

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by 1969Corvette »

Almost everyone in the modified division runs a crate motor. Their was one week where more drivers ran open engines and they were dominating in the heat races. But when it came to the feature, the crates dominated. Why do 604 crate engines get such low RPM (5800 max RPM reccomended by GM) compared to an open motor? Is this because the 604 produces less horsepower? Or is it because of the gear ratios?
Krooser
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:14 pm
Location: Tropical Wisconsin

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by Krooser »

ZIGGY wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:34 pm Run the valves and look at the plugs after every race event. Early warning when something's going away.
Amen on tire prep. And, no offense, but since apparently you are intending to jump into a dirt
modified with no previous racing experience, try not to tear up too many other guys' stuff while
you're learning.
(Krooser - think the Mastersbilt might be ready in a year or two?)
The old '95 is going to become a museum piece... I've had a few requests to show the car in it's original livery as a tribute to the original driver...lots of local dirt track history with him.

I bought an '03 Mastersbilt Wissota chassis with interior, decking and some body panels for $200...really a nice chassis. I'll be using the later model suspension parts I bought for the old car to get this race ready.

Money has been an issue... Not working full time anymore so I have a budget. Got all my motor stuff done except for pistons...looks like I'll have Randy at Racetec carve a few out for me. Still need a Bert trans but I think I found one in my price range.

Hope to make the Shawano opener in 2019...
Honored to be a member of the Luxemburg Speedway Hall of Fame Class of 2019
Krooser
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:14 pm
Location: Tropical Wisconsin

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by Krooser »

1969Corvette wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:52 pm Almost everyone in the modified division runs a crate motor. Their was one week where more drivers ran open engines and they were dominating in the heat races. But when it came to the feature, the crates dominated. Why do 604 crate engines get such low RPM (5800 max RPM reccomended by GM) compared to an open motor? Is this because the 604 produces less horsepower? Or is it because of the gear ratios?
A 604 is 400 HP...an open motor can be 600 or better. The crate has less hp at a lower rpm so you gear them to hit their sweet spot. Turning a crate 7k would be fruitless.

Before GM started bribing sanctions to make rules favoring the crates we raced on tacky tracks with good bite that allowed some great competition. Now we have dry slick dustbowls to run on...partially because of the crate deal but mostly because today's 4 bar cars get upset when they run on a track with a few ruts and bumps...boo fricken hoo!
Honored to be a member of the Luxemburg Speedway Hall of Fame Class of 2019
barnym17
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1341
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 4:37 pm
Location:

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by barnym17 »

Make it tacky, run mono leafs and hang on that's racing!
Krooser
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:14 pm
Location: Tropical Wisconsin

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by Krooser »

barnym17 wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:20 am Make it tacky, run mono leafs and hang on that's racing!
Great minds think alike...

Back to the OP...I'd buy a complete car as last raced. Setup and ready to run. Get someone to take you under their wing and help you. Start by getting out of the stands and into the pits NOW. Talk to the drivers and crew guys...they will help you more than any keyboard racer.
Honored to be a member of the Luxemburg Speedway Hall of Fame Class of 2019
barnym17
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1341
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 4:37 pm
Location:

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by barnym17 »

The truth is with a good driver a big power engine will destroy a crate.You can always use the throttle to remove power but you cant get more than you have if its not enough.The trick is throttle control and while it sounds easy its not. For example the push truck race at Eldora couple weeksago waswon by a driver who never used much more than 1/2 to 1/4 throttle in his own words.But in the first heat before they ruined the track and turned it into pavement light because of complaints about dirt getting on the trucks Horsepower was the difference between a starting spot and going home.
I have seen nights where a tacky track 8 inch tires and leaf springs made an engine be g for mercy and nights where I pulled to plug wires before a feature to limit power (it worked). Its all in setup and driver.
1969Corvette
New Member
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:49 pm
Location:

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by 1969Corvette »

I recently went to a 1/2 mile dirt track that is the 2nd nearest track by me. From where I was seated in the grandstands, I got a pretty good view of the pits. What do drivers check for right before their heat race, and feature race. What adjustments do they make after their heat race? After the races were over, I walked into the pits and noticed waste oil bins almost everywhere.
pamotorman
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2802
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:55 pm
Location:

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by pamotorman »

you check the tire pressure before and after each time on the track and measure the tire stagger to see how it corresponds since the stagger help make the car turn. I carried a pocket voice recorder that I used to record each change I made to the car so I had a record of what worked and what did not work.
racear2865
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: tenn

Re: Rookie racer questions

Post by racear2865 »

I wasnt going to make a comment on this subject but it keeps eating at me. Ive been building engines for as many years as some of you are old. When crate motors came out, I first thought this could be a salvation for low budget racers and for track owners not having to maintain a "check official" for the other engines.I thought, whats the worse it can be, just another engine added to the class. Within one year, I was getting request to cheat the crate engines and as time went by and the total"bag" of replacement bolts were being sold for $500 and up in price, there wasnt much we didnt cheat. The track owners didnt really care as they would say the bolts are there so let them run. When you have been doing this for as long as I have, you learn how to do it all. But you will find out a good driver and a good chassis set up man will win no matter what you give him but the rest have to cheat to try to keep up. Now lets admit right now that a good driver wants all the horsepower he can get so he can drive the car to its utmost limits. The crates can only make so much power (legal crates) . On certain nights he will use more power than other nights especially in qualifying and on all most all nights he will out run the crates because of the horsepower advantage. But let me make you aware of one slight oversight here, I get paid a lot of money to cheat a crate so I love it and oh if you are running for points, you better purchase 2 of them And now that Ford is/has developed a crate, how long before Mopar and do you think it will be cheaper because of that lovely competition. ---------In my opinion, the best way to regulate a class is hand out a precision, well identified, restrictor plate each night. Let them build what they want and do what they want. Limit the tires if you like or limit the shocks to keep costs down.
reed
Post Reply