Looking for engine package recommendations

[406shark]

Cam from a 355 going into a 434? Doesn't the 434 need a small base circle?

The cam was originally spec'd for my 383. Harold said he was going to have it done on a small base circle cause he wasn't sure if the rods I had in it would clear. Unsure if it is, but I'll find out in a few weeks. If the cam won't work I'll throw the Comp cam in it with the 1.6 rockers to try and bump the lift closer to the lift with Harold's cam.

This engine is just to see what it'll do with the 383 spec'd parts thrown in and on a 434 short-block with 1.5 more points of compression. If it won't run the number I'll be upgrading to some better heads, cam and carb minimum over the winter. I don't personally care for 434's... I prefer at 421 myself, but the price was right from a friend swapping over to an aluminum block with 18° heads.




Jeff

[406shark]

There's a company that makes a 3d-printed, carbon fiber type cover for the Jesel belt drive. I wonder if it would fit the comp setup? They appear to be very, very similar. Anybody know if they're that much different?

Unknown.




Jeff

[GARY C]

Cam from a 355 going into a 434? Doesn't the 434 need a small base circle?

The cam was originally spec'd for my 383. Harold said he was going to have it done on a small base circle cause he wasn't sure if the rods I had in it would clear. Unsure if it is, but I'll find out in a few weeks. If the cam won't work I'll throw the Comp cam in it with the 1.6 rockers to try and bump the lift closer to the lift with Harold's cam.

This engine is just to see what it'll do with the 383 spec'd parts thrown in and on a 434 short-block with 1.5 more points of compression. If it won't run the number I'll be upgrading to some better heads, cam and carb minimum over the winter. I don't personally care for 434's... I prefer at 421 myself, but the price was right from a friend swapping over to an aluminum block with 18° heads.




Jeff

Thats cool, I agree with others on that cam.

You may try mocking up the 1.6 rocker, depending on the rocker you may not get a full .730 and find you have enough room before coil bind.

[406shark]

Cam from a 355 going into a 434? Doesn't the 434 need a small base circle?

The cam was originally spec'd for my 383. Harold said he was going to have it done on a small base circle cause he wasn't sure if the rods I had in it would clear. Unsure if it is, but I'll find out in a few weeks. If the cam won't work I'll throw the Comp cam in it with the 1.6 rockers to try and bump the lift closer to the lift with Harold's cam.

This engine is just to see what it'll do with the 383 spec'd parts thrown in and on a 434 short-block with 1.5 more points of compression. If it won't run the number I'll be upgrading to some better heads, cam and carb minimum over the winter. I don't personally care for 434's... I prefer at 421 myself, but the price was right from a friend swapping over to an aluminum block with 18° heads.




Jeff

Thats cool, I agree with others on that cam.

You may try mocking up the 1.6 rocker, depending on the rocker you may not get a full .730 and find you have enough room before coil bind.

I just may do that. Thanks for the idea. Both sets of rockers are the Crane Gold... from my experience they are damn close to spec, but it's worth checking.




Jeff

[406shark]

Hey guys... I have a couple of things that I'm going to change and just wondering if they would change your mind on which cam should work best.

I bought a Ron's toilet setup to run alcohol, and am going to switch over to 1.875" primary with 3.5" collector headers. I know the Ron's toilet will flow plenty for the increase in cubic inches compared to the Pro Systems 950 HP carb. The headers will probably be a wash stepping to the straight larger headers instead of the stepped 1.75" - 1.875" ones. I can't fit the old headers with a front mount fuel cell and belt driven fuel pump.

I'm going to be swapping everything over next week. I'll have results after the weekend of the 25th - 26th.




Jeff

[cgarb]

I would think the larger headers will help out some. The 408 I run in my new ride has 2" tubes on it. Lot lacking in the torque department at all...I have trouble keeping the front end down on the ground. Made the adjustment the wrong way on the front shocks last weekend and ended up with a moonshot on the 1st time run.(Hope the track photographer got that one!) Hit the wheelie bars so hard it unloaded the rear tires. Was going straight so I stayed in it to keep from smashing everything flat on the way down. Made it right for the next pass...now the shocks are all the way tight on extension.

[406shark]

We got the 434 put together last week. It took longer than I thought it would (doesn't it always?). It took more work because of changing over to run the Ron's Toilet system with the Primer Plus system. I hate plumbing.

We ended up being able to run the Harold/Lunati cam with the 1.6 rockers for .730 lift. We installed it at 104°. It sounded nasty, and the throttle response was unreal. That toilet with alcohol injection turns the throttle almost into an on/off switch.

Worked on it until 4:30 am Saturday. Got a few hours sleep, then loaded it for some test hits at the track in Dyersburg Tennessee where there was a S10 meet/race. I don't think I'll ever race there again. The right lane caused EVERYONE of us heading toward the right guard rail before the 60' timer. I talked to a couple of the regulars who said they set their cars up to compensate for it. The left lane has a dip just after the finish line which caused chassis cars like mine to get all out of shape if you got on the brakes before hitting the dip. There isn't enough shutdown length for quick cars if you wait until after the dip. Oh well.

My truck sounded really good, but I attempted the right lane twice... almost put it into the wall and had to let off. One pass in the left lane that taught me about the dip, luckily it was after an aborted pass. My 4 link was no where close to where it needed to be for the increased power.

Video of the pass in the left lane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJs6iBvl6r0


Yesterday we unloaded it at my friend's shop and we scaled the truck, reset the IC location and ride height. He called a friend of his that owns the 1/8 mile track in Jackson TN. Scott, the track owner, said that we could come out and make some test hits for a couple of hours. He would prep 1 lane for me. No time slips or scoreboards... just get it to leave and go down the track.

The track was prepped way better than either of my local tracks up here have ever been. The truck started out by hitting the slicks so hard they went into tire shake, but it went straight and quick. We started adding air until we were up to 11.5 psi (up from 8 psi) and tightened up the shocks. It was leaving very hard, once down track it was on rails. My friend took a video of each pass. Once I get them I'll see about posting some of them.

I found that I have to get the converter tightened up. It stalled at 6350 rpm, and shifting it at 7000 rpm only dropped it back to 6500 rpm at both shifts. I've already called PTC and I'll be sending the converter back for them to tighten it up to only go to about 5900 - 6000 rpm on the drop back.

Sorry this is so long, but I'm pumped. lol




Jeff

[406shark]

Made a few small changes to the truck's suspension. Found out that my rear springs had allowed the rear to lower slightly. The shocks are designed to install at 13.875" - 14.50" stud to stud. Mine were down to 13.0". I ordered a set of 110# springs, installed them and set the shocks at 14.25" stud to stud.

Headed out to my local 1/4 mile track for a special Muscle Car index race day. They allow you to pick your index from 9.0 - 17.0 at 1/2 second increments.

First pass off the trailer: Slicks at 9.0 psi, 2 step at 4000 rpm

60' 1.292

1/8 5.801@ 119.05 mph

1/4 9.178@ 143.66 mph

It spun the first .961 seconds of the run, then hooked and went


Second pass: Lowered slicks to 8.5 psi, 2 step at 4000 rpm

60' 1.305

1/8 5.821@ 120.19 mph

1/4 9.196@ 143.76 mph

Spun for just over 1 second of the pass, then hooked and went.


Before the third pass the track manager came over and checked my license, chassis cert, etc... then said you don't have fire pants? Nope... they said I couldn't run in the 9's anymore until I got fire pants.


So, I put the tire pressure up to 9.25 psi on the slicks, put the 2 step at 4500 rpm.

I decided that I was going to run all out until the 1/8 mile stripe, then let off and coast through the 1/4.


60' 1.360

1/8 5.904@ 118.82 mph

1/4 10.165@ 95.46 mph

Spun a ton, then hooked.


Fourth pass: Lowered slicks back to 9 psi, lowered 2 step back to 4000 rpm. Went all out, then let off at the 1/8 mile stripe and coasted through the 1/4.


60' 1.283

1/8 5.780@ 120.57 mph

1/4 9.919@ 98.31 mph


Track manager was waiting for me when I turned off and said "that is your second warning, you're done".

I had hoped to be able to run the 10.0 index after finding out I couldn't run in the 9's. No such luck. I was planning on doing an all out pass on my final race to try for a 8.90 something, that would have been worth it to get kicked off the track. lol



I only played with the 2 step and the tire pressure today. I need to get some passes in where I can play with the shock settings to get my launch down where it should be... maybe 1.25-1.26? Looks like I'm going to have to wait until next spring? At least the chassis is now working... just need to fine tune it.



Track was 45° - 47° today. Clouds with no sun. Humidity was 85% - 87%. Tons of street tire cars combined with no heat in the track made me happy to run as quick as it did. I also found out why the front wasn't transferring weight to the rear. The front struts were adjusted full tight, not the full loose I thought they were.




Jeff

[barnym17]

That's great

[Newold1]

I am sorry but maybe I am reading things wrong here. First, you valve event timing numbers for the Comp Cams cam must be measured at a greatly different point than the Lunati cam as there is to big a difference to compare the cams. Could you re-enter the numbers of one of the cams to match up with the other at a same measurement point so a better camshaft comparison could be made. I say this because what you need and should learn and know about cam comparisons like this is not that difficult and you should take the time to understand these particular event differences and how they will benefit or lessen your best results.

Two, your Tack 1 heads that you give flow numbers for must either have some serious rework as the flow numbers you are listing are in excess of what Brodix says they will flow even with larger intakes and factory CNC upgrades? If your heads have the 2.08" or 2.10" intake and intake ports above the standard 220cc range of a standard Track 1 head and really do achieve those flow numbers especially at .700 lift I don't think they are to restrictive for your use especially at 7300rpms and those camshafts.

As for rocker ratios and intake lifts I think there are easily some valve springs that will allow you to reach that +.700 lift from 1.6 rockers that will fit your heads and provide the lift and poundages you need for valve train control at you rpm range.

I realize you are trying to cobble this engine together with what you have but don't limit your results by not carefully confirming and using the best slight changes and uses of what you have. JMHO

[406shark]

I am sorry but maybe I am reading things wrong here. First, you valve event timing numbers for the Comp Cams cam must be measured at a greatly different point than the Lunati cam as there is to big a difference to compare the cams. Could you re-enter the numbers of one of the cams to match up with the other at a same measurement point so a better camshaft comparison could be made. I say this because what you need and should learn and know about cam comparisons like this is not that difficult and you should take the time to understand these particular event differences and how they will benefit or lessen your best results.

Two, your Tack 1 heads that you give flow numbers for must either have some serious rework as the flow numbers you are listing are in excess of what Brodix says they will flow even with larger intakes and factory CNC upgrades? If your heads have the 2.08" or 2.10" intake and intake ports above the standard 220cc range of a standard Track 1 head and really do achieve those flow numbers especially at .700 lift I don't think they are to restrictive for your use especially at 7300rpms and those camshafts.

As for rocker ratios and intake lifts I think there are easily some valve springs that will allow you to reach that +.700 lift from 1.6 rockers that will fit your heads and provide the lift and poundages you need for valve train control at you rpm range.

I realize you are trying to cobble this engine together with what you have but don't limit your results by not carefully confirming and using the best slight changes and uses of what you have. JMHO

Here is a cut and paste of a post on page 1 that Craig (cjperformance) posted explaining to me why the numbers looked like they did when attempting to compare the two cams.

"The Lunati events are based off of .050" and the comp are based off of advertised duration . You would need to map the comp at .050" to get a better look. The .200" numbers tell some more again.
Based off of the numbers available I would use the lunati in this one."

My Track 1 heads have the 2.08" valves. I had a local guy that got great reviews from local guys running the Track 1's. He did some chamber work, "street/strip" port work and a "competition valve job". I don't know what to say about the flow numbers? The test pressure shows to be at 28", and through a 4" bore. His flow numbers of the stock heads showed slightly less flow than Brodix advertises. The intake port was increased to 225cc from what he told me.

I was able to use the 1.6 rockers on my Lunati cut cam for .730" lift. The way the engine is working at this point I'll probably end up leaving it alone, other than tuning, instead of throwing more money at it. This is a bracket truck, sometimes index truck. I'm not looking for ultimate power. As it is now I'm going to have to come up with a way to slow it down when running 6.0, or 10.0 indexes. It's running pretty much where I was wanting to end up. I haven't even had time to attempt timing or fuel delivery changes... or rear shock settings yet.

I do appreciate your post.




Jeff