700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

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Truckedup
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by Truckedup »

DanE1 wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:40 pm They don't "let" the 460 Ford engine have 60 cubic inches more than other engines.

Some of the stock 460 Ford blocks will accept a 4.5" bore.

And the same block will accept a 4.75" stroke.

The engine from the outside must appear stock. Block, intake and exhaust manifolds, ect.

The fastest that I have seen has been a 9.84 at a shy 140 MPH out of a Cobra Jet Mustang.

Same rules for everybody.
From the rule book, sounds like the 460 get 60 more inches....
There will be a 560 cubic inch limit on all engines except the Ford 429/460 based power plants which will be allowed 620 cubes.
Motorcycle land speed racing... wearing animal hides and clinging to vibrating oily machines propelled by fire
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by midnightbluS10 »

Barry Burch wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:17 am The tires are made by corker tire. They must look like
factory tires but they are soft rubber drag racing
rubber compound.
Pretty sure they're bias-ply like the originals, also.
JC -

bigjoe1 wrote:By the way, I had a long talk with Harold(Brookshire) last year at the PRI show. We met at the airport and he told me everything he knew about everything.It was a nice visit. JOE SHERMAN RACING
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by midnightbluS10 »

Truckedup wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:26 am
Barry Burch wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:17 am The tires are made by corker tire. They must look like
factory tires but they are soft rubber drag racing
rubber compound.
Do they run drag race type suspension set ups ?

They are not soft rubber racing drag tires. I posted a link to the rules. Not sure why there are still questions unless people either don't believe those are the rules or they think I don't know wtf I'm talking about, which is the feeling I get here most days.
No soft compound tires of any kind are allowed


As long as it appears stock, they can use it. So no 4 links. No ladder bars. None of that. Stock suspension. If it didn't come with a Drag race type suspension, then they can't use it. Only aftermarket shocks, springs, bushings painted to look original. Looks like they can use pinion snubbers and leaf spring clamps. And traction bars if they came stock and it's documented. I posted a link to the rules on the previous page. Click it and read.


13.00 SUSPENSION

13.10 Rear Suspension:
13.11 Traction devices are limited to hop stop bars for upper control arms on coil spring cars.
13.12 Upper and lower control arms on coil spring cars must be correct*.
13.13 Pinion snubbers and clamping of leaf springs are allowed on leaf spring cars.
13.14 No slapper bars or ladder bars of any kind are allowed, unless originally equipped from the factory. Factory documentation will be required to prove authenticity for any cars with bolt on traction devices.
No dealer installed traction devices allowed.
13.15 Aftermarket bushings OK.
Must be the correct* original color.
13.16 Shocks and springs must appear correct.
Aftermarket adjustable shocks are OK if painted to appear correct.
13.17 Air bags are not allowed.
13.20 Front Suspension:
13.21 The front sway bar is optional.
13.22 Aftermarket shocks, bushings and springs are OK, but must be painted to appear correct. No other aftermarket front suspension parts are allowed.

14.00 TIRES AND WHEELS AND BRAKES

14.01 Wheels must be correct*, including correct* diameter, width and material.
Note: Width may be upgraded to a maximum of 6”, if the correct* wheel is narrower than that. Reproduction wheels OK.
14.02 All 4 wheels and tires must be same size.
Exception: Mopar TA Challenger came from factory with G-60’s on rear and F-60’s on front.
14.03 Original equipment reproduction bias-ply tires only. No soft compound tires of any kind are allowed. Retread tires are not allowed. Any car is allowed to upgrade to a maximum size tire of G-70 of the correct* wheel diameter. All cars that were originally available with a 60 series tire can upgrade to a maximum size of G-60 tire of the correct* wheel diameter.
Exception: First time F.A.S.T. participants are allowed to run normal ’non-sticky’ street radials for their first F.A.S.T. race.
14.04 Aftermarket or OEM brake upgrades are allowed for safety concerns. Every effort should be made to achieve a stock appearance.
14.05 Line locks are allowed if hidden.
Last edited by midnightbluS10 on Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
JC -

bigjoe1 wrote:By the way, I had a long talk with Harold(Brookshire) last year at the PRI show. We met at the airport and he told me everything he knew about everything.It was a nice visit. JOE SHERMAN RACING
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by midnightbluS10 »

Here. I'll post em up anyway.

1.00 Body
1.01 The correct* original appearance must be retained.
1.02 No custom or fiberglass replacement panels are allowed.
Car frame and body, including bumpers, must be made from correct* original material.
Repro parts are OK if made from correct* original material, ie: repro fiberglass hood on 440 six-pack.
1.03 No "custom" paint colors, designs, or lettering is allowed.
Paint color must appear stock. Graphics (for advertising or creative purposes) will not be allowed anywhere on the vehicles. Only correct* graphics will be allowed. Example: Dodge Scat Pack bumble bees ,Hurst Olds, Yenko graphics, etc. Exception: F.A.S.T. sticker as provided by and placed as directed by F.A.S.T. Directors.
1.04 Front and rear car height must appear correct.
1.05 Bumpers, fenders and under hood must retain all correct* bracing and reinforcements.
1.06 Correct* inner fender panels, front and rear, must be retained.
1.07 Factory hood scoops, ram air, fresh air induction must appear correct.
1.08 Interior seating, trim, and materials must appear correct.
1.09 Aftermarket tachs and gauges are allowed if mounted on the steering column or under the dash.
1.10 Correct* glass only. All windows must be functional and closed during all runs.
1.11 Hood must be fully closed during all runs.
1.12 Wheel base must be correct*, within +/- 1" of original factory spec.
1.13 The outside car body must maintain correct* original dimensions.


2.00 ENGINE
2.01 Engine block must appear to be a correct* original block and must be of the same engine family and exterior size. The block must be made from the same material as the correct* original block. Approved aftermarket replacement blocks are allowed (see list below).

If you want to use an aftermarket block that is not already preapproved it is up to the individual to submit all the necessary information to the FASTRACES LLC so the block in question can be properly investigated. (part numbers, casting numbers, web site links, company names, phone numbers, etc) Raised decked and raised cammed blocks will not be approved. There will be a 560 cubic inch limit on all engines except the Ford 429/460 based power plants which will be allowed 620 cubes.

If you think you can get more than the allotted cubic inches out of a stock production block you will have to contact the FAST Board of Director and have your combination approved prior to racing.

2.01a -Approved Aftermarket Replacement Block List:

End Of Approved List.
2.02 Dealer installed engines and dealer performed modifications are not allowed.
2.03 Cylinder Heads and Intake Manifold MUST be correct* OEM casting, have correct* original casting numbers and be of correct* original material.
This may very well be the most important and teched F.A.S.T. rule.
Note: Any cylinder head or intake manifold that is not the correct* casting number, must be approved and published on the F.A.S.T. website.
Casting date codes are not looked at and are not part of the tech process.
2.04 Internal engine modifications OK.
2.05 The entire engine compartment and engine assembly, including accessories, must appear correct, except for items specifically defined otherwise in these rules. Appearance of the engine will be inspected with the air filter housing off and on. Removal of pollution control air pump is allowed. Engine torque strap OK.
Engine color should appear stock.
2.06 No Nitrous Oxide allowed.
2.07 Lightweight mini starters OK. If painted to appear as stock as possible.
2.08 Aftermarket harmonic balancers are OK, if painted to appear as stock as possible.
2.09 Maximum of 2 OEM type intake manifold gaskets allowed between manifold and cylinder head.


3.00 FUEL SYSTEM AND CARBURETOR
3.01 The carburetor must appear externally correct*.
Internal modifications are OK. Carburetor housing must be the correct* housing for your application. The stamped part number need not be correct*. For example any 750 Q-jet can replace any 750 Q-jet as long as it externally appears correct*, but an 800 Q-jet cannot replace a 750 Q-jet, even if it does appear externally correct.
3.02 Carb choke flap and assembly is optional.
3.03 Choke horn removal is not allowed.
3.04 Carb spacers are not allowed
3.05 Maximum of 2 OEM type gaskets allowed under carb.
3.06 The air filter housing assembly must appear correct.
All qualifying and race runs must be done with the correct appearing air filter housing and an air filter in place. Correctly sized aftermarket air filters are OK.
3.07 The correct* mechanical fuel pump must be retained.
3.08 Electric fuel pumps are allowed if mounted in a location out of view.
Fuel regulators and fuel pressure gauges are OK, if mounted in a location out of view.
3.09 Correct* fuel lines are required from engine mounted mechanical fuel pump to carburetor.
3.10 Fuel lines from tank to mechanical pump may be upgraded.
3.11 Gasoline as outlined here is the only acceptable fuel for use in F.A.S.T..
The F.A.S.T. tech inspector reserves the right to check gasoline at any time during competition. Gasoline is defined as a mixture of hydrocarbons only. The average dielectric constant (D.C.) for the hydrocarbons that compromises gasoline is 2.025. This is defined as a reading of "0" on the fuel-check meter.
3.12 Nitrous Oxide is NOT allowed. ANYONE USING NITROUS OXIDE WILL BE BANNED FROM PARTICIPATING FOR LIFE!
3.13 Propylene Oxide, Nitro-methane, alcohol and nitro-propane are NOT allowed.


4.00 EXHAUST
4.01 Cast iron exhaust manifolds are mandatory and must be correct*, have correct* casting numbers and be of correct* material. Under no circumstances will headers be allowed, including those cars that had headers delivered in the trunk.
Internal modifications are OK. Correct* appearing exhaust manifold paint or coatings are OK. Casting date codes are not looked at and are not part of the tech process.
4.02 Even if equipped from the factory with cut-outs, all runs must be made with closed exhaust running through the mufflers.
4.03 Exhaust systems may be upgraded to a maximum of 2.5" diameter head and tail pipes.
Exception: Certain Max Wedge cars left the factory with 3" inch head pipes, these cars can retain these head pipes up to, but not past, the transmission tail-shaft. Even if equipped from the factory with cut-outs, all runs must be made with closed exhaust running through the mufflers.
4.04 Mufflers must be stock looking in design.
No welded mufflers allowed. Maximum muffler inlet and outlet is 2.5”.
4.05 Exhaust pipes must exit in the correct* original location.
4.06 Excessive exhaust leaks are not allowed.
4.07 "X" and "H" pipes are allowed. The “X” pipe assembly can not exceed 24” in length.
4.08 Maximum of 2 OEM type exhaust manifold gaskets allowed between manifold and cylinder head.
4.09 Delay, Stutter, or Two Step launch control devices violate the 'stock sounding' exhaust rule and are prohibited.

5.00 VALVE COVERS
5.01 Valve covers must appear correct.
5.02 Valve cover spacers are not allowed.
5.03 Maximum of 2 OEM type gaskets under each valve cover allowed.

6.00 CAMSHAFT
6.01 Camshaft must produce a correct* stock sound at idle. We all know what a STOCK cam sounds like! Factory cam specs will be taken into consideration when determining the correct* idle sound.

Example: An Olds W30 or a Mopar Max Wedge car had large cams from the factory. They will not be expected to idle as smoothly as a 1973 400. Camshaft lopiness and smoothness will be teched with the engine operating at idle RPM and from the exhaust outlets. Upgrade to solid flat tappet or roller cam OK. Mechanical sounds from the valve train are not a tech item.

Note: The camshaft rule is under investigation, so that it may be better enforced. Currently there are no changes but the F.A.S.T. Board will be conducting various tests during the 2010 racing year to determine the best way to tech for this. During 2010 there will be testing of cars done at the track (during normal F.A.S.T. tech) to document engine vacuum, idle rpm, db sound levels, etc.. These test results will be used to better clarify, test and enforce the spirit of the F.A.S.T. camshaft rule.

7.00 PULLEYS
7.01 All pulleys must be correct*. Aluminum pulleys are not legal.
7.02 Belts running the water pump and alternator must be retained at all times.

8.00 IGNITION SYSTEM
8.01 The distributor, distributor cap and coil must appear correct,
Distributor housing does not need to have original part number stamped in body.
8.02 Coil must be retained in the correct* location.
8.03 Aftermarket ignition boxes allowed, if mounted out of sight.
8.04 Spark plug wires and boots must be black, (or of the correct* original color if the correct* original color is not black) 8mm maximum diameter, and have NO aftermarket lettering on them.
Aftermarket spark plug wires are OK if they conform to the above rules.

9.00 COOLING SYSTEM
9.01 The radiator, fan and radiator shroud must appear correct.
Replacement radiator caps are OK. No electric fans.
9.02 Overflow cans of at least 20 oz. are required.
Aftermarket overflow cans OK, if car originally did not have one. If an aftermarket overflow can is used, racers are encouraged to hide the overflow can as best they can with paint and placement.

10.00 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
10.01 The battery must be retained in the correct* location, be functional and securely fastened down with original style hold down.
Original looking batteries are encouraged but not required, Replacement batteries are OK.
10.02 The charging system must be fully operational at all times.
10.03 Under hood wiring should appear correct.

11.00 DRIVETRAIN
11.01 Vehicles that only came with 4-speeds may convert to automatics and vice/versa. This must be done in a matter that reflects how the factory would have done it, OEM correct* shifters, linkage, consoles if equipped, and hardware MUST be used and the conversion must look 100% correct to the FASTRACES LLC.
11.02 The transmission must be of the same manufacturer as the car.
For example: an Olds with a TH400 could change to a TH350 or Powerglide, and a Chevy with a Saginaw could change to a Muncie or other GM 4 speed trans. Transmission casting numbers are not a tech issue. Internal modifications are OK.
11.03 OEM appearing aftermarket cases are OK.
11.10 Automatic Transmission:
11.11 Any torque converter is OK.
11.12 Aftermarket shifters are not allowed.
11.13 Maximum 3 forward gears.
11.20 Manual Transmission:
11.21 Any clutch/pressure plate assembly is OK. Scatter shields are OK.
11.22 3 speeds may be upgraded to a 4 speed.
11.23 Shifter must be stock appearing.
11.24 Maximum 4 forward gears.
11.30 Drive Shaft:
11.31 Aftermarket drive shaft is OK. Maximum 3.5” diameter.
Aftermarket drive shafts should be painted, to appear as stock as possible.

12.00 REAR AXLES
12.01 The rear axle housing must be of the same manufacturer as the car. OEM appearing aftermarket housings are OK.
Internal modifications are OK. Any gear ratio allowed. Aftermarket axles are OK.
Upgrade to posi-unit or spool is OK.

13.00 SUSPENSION
13.10 Rear Suspension:
13.11 Traction devices are limited to hop stop bars for upper control arms on coil spring cars.
13.12 Upper and lower control arms on coil spring cars must be correct*.
13.13 Pinion snubbers and clamping of leaf springs are allowed on leaf spring cars.
13.14 No slapper bars or ladder bars of any kind are allowed, unless originally equipped from the factory. Factory documentation will be required to prove authenticity for any cars with bolt on traction devices.
No dealer installed traction devices allowed.
13.15 Aftermarket bushings OK.
Must be the correct* original color.
13.16 Shocks and springs must appear correct.
Aftermarket adjustable shocks are OK if painted to appear correct.
13.17 Air bags are not allowed.
13.20 Front Suspension:
13.21 The front sway bar is optional.
13.22 Aftermarket shocks, bushings and springs are OK, but must be painted to appear correct. No other aftermarket front suspension parts are allowed.

14.00 TIRES AND WHEELS AND BRAKES
14.01 Wheels must be correct*, including correct* diameter, width and material.
Note: Width may be upgraded to a maximum of 6”, if the correct* wheel is narrower than that. Reproduction wheels OK.
14.02 All 4 wheels and tires must be same size.
Exception: Mopar TA Challenger came from factory with G-60’s on rear and F-60’s on front.
14.03 Original equipment reproduction bias-ply tires only. No soft compound tires of any kind are allowed. Retread tires are not allowed. Any car is allowed to upgrade to a maximum size tire of G-70 of the correct* wheel diameter. All cars that were originally available with a 60 series tire can upgrade to a maximum size of G-60 tire of the correct* wheel diameter.
Exception: First time F.A.S.T. participants are allowed to run normal ’non-sticky’ street radials for their first F.A.S.T. race.
14.04 Aftermarket or OEM brake upgrades are allowed for safety concerns. Every effort should be made to achieve a stock appearance.
14.05 Line locks are allowed if hidden.

15.00 TRACK TECH
15.01 All track safety rules apply and you must pass track tech.

When required by track safety rules, roll bars and aftermarket seat belts will not be cause for disqualification under the 'stock appearing' requirement in the F.A.S.T. rules. We require that everyone racing in the F.A.S.T. class maintain a stock image and appearance as best they can. Every effort should be made to integrate required safety equipment with a correct appearance. Careful shaping and placement of the roll bar tubes to hide them as best as possible and painting of the roll bar is one way to try and blend in the roll bar with the interior.

16.00 UNDER BODY
16.01 Underside of vehicle needs to appear correct when viewed from ground level, 3 feet outside perimeter of the car.
Exceptions to this are any components specifically identified and mentioned in the rules.

17.00 ET SPECIFIC TECH
17.01 11.50 - Any car that runs 11.50 or quicker any time during the event will be subject to a mandatory cylinder head casting # and material check via valve cover removal.
17.02 10.70 - Any car that runs 10.70 or quicker any time during the event will be subject to stricter tech inspection, requiring removal of carburetor/s, valve cover and distributor.
17.03 10.30 - Any car that runs 10.30 or quicker any time during the event will be subject to a heavy tech including P&G.

JC -

bigjoe1 wrote:By the way, I had a long talk with Harold(Brookshire) last year at the PRI show. We met at the airport and he told me everything he knew about everything.It was a nice visit. JOE SHERMAN RACING
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by midnightbluS10 »

treyrags wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:32 am Soft launch setups with finely tuned suspensions and weight transfer. Same challenge as small tire cars with big power adders.
As long as those small tire cars with big power adders are on stock suspension, which normally isn't the case.
JC -

bigjoe1 wrote:By the way, I had a long talk with Harold(Brookshire) last year at the PRI show. We met at the airport and he told me everything he knew about everything.It was a nice visit. JOE SHERMAN RACING
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by Keith Morganstein »

midnightbluS10 wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:13 am


They are not soft rubber racing drag tires. I posted a link to the rules. Not sure why there are still questions unless people either don't believe those are the rules or they think I don't know wtf I'm talking about, which is the feeling I get here most days
If someone watches the video I linked, a lot of the questions were answered. I learned a few things.

It was said they do not use special compound or any tire doping. That they found a worn down tire works best.

Its amazing how soft and steady the launch is. Reminds me of an modern electric subway train pulling out of the station.
Keith Morganstein wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:57 am F.A.S.T

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b62oOrX9HKs
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by pdq67 »

I gotta ask!!

Are the STOCK 1st Gen. Camaro traction bars worth messing with?

I always used my old style homemade, "slappers"... Worked great once I t&t'd them one Sat. afternoon. Oh, along with, "coil-over", overload shocks.

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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by quickd100 »

Dave Dudek's car runs stock 318 rear leaf springs, no pinion snubber, and worn down bald polyglass tires. That's it, that's what works.
The MP Siamese hemi blocks can,(passing Sonic checking) go 4.56" or more and can handle a 4.75" stroke. Mine is 4.50x4.75, I have .060 clearance between a couple cam lobes and the rods. They also made a raised cam block that would accept a 5" arm.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/quickd100/9ff3c690.jpg[/img]
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by 427dart »

quickd100 wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:37 pm Dave Dudek's car runs stock 318 rear leaf springs, no pinion snubber, and worn down bald polyglass tires. That's it, that's what works.
The MP Siamese hemi blocks can,(passing Sonic checking) go 4.56" or more and can handle a 4.75" stroke. Mine is 4.50x4.75, I have .060 clearance between a couple cam lobes and the rods. They also made a raised cam block that would accept a 5" arm.
When they ran down here at VMP some years ago we were checking out Dave's RoadRunner and noticed a prop holding up the trunk lid.
Later found out the lid had a lot of lead in it and the springs wouldn't hold it up! An old trick from the Ramcharger days!!
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by quickd100 »

Yep Dave has tried all the old tricks and then some. A few years ago at a FAST race Dave tore down his motor in the pits so everyone could get a look at it to show everyone it was legal. He then reassembled it and ran low et for the race.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/quickd100/9ff3c690.jpg[/img]
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by fastblackracing »

I watched some of these guys and gals at norwalk this summer....of particular interest to me was the
orange L88 vette of terry pennington? High 9 second passes at 140+ mph....looked like it was pulling
Hi 1.4xx 60' foot times to me.....They have done a good job sorting these suspensions out and the tires
had minimal tread on them....not sure if they shave them or purchase them like that.

That corvette flat out gets it done.
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by gmrocket »

fastblackracing wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:47 pm I watched some of these guys and gals at norwalk this summer....of particular interest to me was the
orange L88 vette of terry pennington? High 9 second passes at 140+ mph....looked like it was pulling
Hi 1.4xx 60' foot times to me.....They have done a good job sorting these suspensions out and the tires
had minimal tread on them....not sure if they shave them or purchase them like that.

That corvette flat out gets it done.
i seen them run at michigan a couple years ago..looking under most of them, they had some kind of add on trac set up...no hop bars, relocated upper arms, aftermarket lower arms etc. all looked great and stock looking

that corvette doesnt run the stock rear end correct? it runs a solid axle from something else

i dont know why they added that 560 limit for everything but the ford? makes no sense, why not just allow all to run 620 ? i know the olds can go more than 560
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by PackardV8 »

Speaking of stock cast iron intake and exhaust manifolds; I've heard third-hand some of the F.A.S.T.est guys have spent $10,000 with ExtrudeHone.

FWIW, back when it was the NEW THING, I spent $750 having ExtrudeHone shine up the interior of a cast iron V8 intake and saw very little horsepower increase. Who here's done it with cast iron and what were your results?
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by MichaelThompson »

Does anyone run a Boss 429 combination nowadays? I know Lane Carey’s F.A.S.T. Mustang was SCJ powered. Maybe the stock Boss 429 exhaust manifolds aren’t as good as the CJ’s?
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Re: 700 RWHP with stock manifolds!

Post by 427dart »

MichaelThompson wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:37 pm Does anyone run a Boss 429 combination nowadays? I know Lane Carey’s F.A.S.T. Mustang was SCJ powered. Maybe the stock Boss 429 exhaust manifolds aren’t as good as the CJ’s?
I haven't heard of a Boss 429 FAST car yet. You can build one on the cheap using the Kasse Boss head package on a 429-460 block but don't know if FAST rules would accept that. Heck...most all the FAST cars are built up clones anyway.

That would be a nice combo at over 500 cubes!
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