Only yours-
Projection is no substitute for facts
You’re on a losing ticket
You see, if you had any idea what you are talking about, you would know that everything people suggest has been thought of. The fix for one problem creates many more. You think everyone in the sport, from the sanctioning body to the teams, are stupid. Just shows how little you, and many others really know.
A revert back to purely OEM ba7sed cars and power plants would end the sport just in the financial.aspect alone, let alone the mechanical.and safety challenges we've just worked through. And for what, so person such as your self would be interested for about 5 minutes, then move on to something else to criticize.
Unfortunately that's how society is these days. No matter if we want to admit it or not.
Same thing with pro stock drag racing. The only people interested, are the ones that just want to take a trip down memory lane, instead of appreciating the technical aspect, no matter how restricted by rules it may be.
Just blame the sanctioning bodies!
They don't always make the right decisions, and some of the past deals have been down right laughable. But to point fingers at the sanctioning bodies only is a shame. Things have changed weather you like them or not. We just got to make the best of it. But bashing everything professional motorsports wise ensures an early demise. And people need to look in the mirror prior to pointing fingers and shelling blame.
Be a part of the solution, not part of the problem!
And the problems are more complex than what's under the hood!
Pro Stock is dying exactly because of rules. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not. As is typical, GM gets the rules it always desires. Has been that way since before I was born.
Rules NEVER fix anything. I just read the "brain power" of NHRA is trying to develop more "parity" of competition by dicking with the rules. That's what's happened to the NFL. Anyone who knows football prior to the Pete Rozell and his desire for "parity" and his policies know that has killed the NFL product.
Defend the rules makers all you want. I say let the rules be fixed. Exact OE bodies. Use the power plants now. Mandate a tire size and weight. Leave the rest alone. Let the tire, chassis, aero and other engineers make them safe.
They don't care about that!They are in the entertainment business and are trying to give the money paying fans what they want.I believe at Atlanta last year the 4 car lead like 180 laps.Fans want to see side by side racing and passing and if cars crash that's part of the entertainment.This Sunday will be the first try to break that deal of one car running away with the race.Tom
tjs44 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:49 pm
Joe,dont know how much you charge for porting but if you cut your prices by 75% can you EVER make the gross profit dollars back?Nice thought but it will NEVER add up!Tom
I see a lot of empty seats at NASCAR races. If they would lower the price of tickets they would fill up more seats and make more money. Empty seats bring $0. Some of the Truck races appear to have 95% empty seats from what I've seen on TV.
What race fans of all types really want to see is "uncertainty of outcome."
Close racing has become very boring for 198 laps and mayhem during the last two laps. While this
meets the "uncertainty of outcome" objective, it will eventually result in driver injury and deaths.
Then the fans will scream that racing must be made safe. Safe? A 3500 lb projectile at 200mph can't
be made safe in a crash.
Looking back at the haydays of NASCAR, what were the rules back then? What restrictions were in
place? How many rules were broken as teams sought to level the playing field by themselves?
Look at the innovations developed, not by NASCAR but by clever crew chiefs.
Why does anybody think spec racing is real racing?
There is much more fun to be had at the tailgating parties in the parking lot before the race than
in the overpriced stands during the race.
Steve.k wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:02 am
Fwiw we did a test at our local track where we lowered our spectator fee in half. The result was the same amount of people got in for less.
You would have to advertise it so people know about it. Maybe put a cheap 4X8 plywood sign by the road that tells what you have to offer and end it with "... Only $5 general admission!".
This brings up another point that I was thinking about. Back in the 1970's and 1980's, the racing promoters did a better job with advertising. Remember the "SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!!!" ads? As a kid that got you really excited about the races. Like you'd really be missing something if you didn't go. You hardly see any NASCAR ads on TV and maybe just a few NHRA ads that don't have the same excitement level like the old ads.
Marketing 101 : You have to advertise so people know you exist.
David Redszus wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:32 am
What race fans of all types really want to see is "uncertainty of outcome."
Close racing has become very boring for 198 laps and mayhem during the last two laps. While this
meets the "uncertainty of outcome" objective, it will eventually result in driver injury and deaths.
Then the fans will scream that racing must be made safe. Safe? A 3500 lb projectile at 200mph can't
be made safe in a crash.
Looking back at the haydays of NASCAR, what were the rules back then? What restrictions were in
place? How many rules were broken as teams sought to level the playing field by themselves?
Look at the innovations developed, not by NASCAR but by clever crew chiefs.
Why does anybody think spec racing is real racing?
There is much more fun to be had at the tailgating parties in the parking lot before the race than
in the overpriced stands during the race.
David you've hit the nail on the head. The issue is the rules makers want parity which isn't the same thing. They do it over and over and over again, never learning from their mistakes. Parity is stupid.
Let's go back to OE body configurations and 86 the ignorant body templates. Let the engineers make the cars safe at speed.
I know jay will disagree like he always does and then make excuses for the sad sack sorry show being out on by both NASCAR and NHRA.
If the blind follow the blind the all end up in the ditch. They are on the edge of the ditch right now.
David Redszus wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:32 am
What race fans of all types really want to see is "uncertainty of outcome."
Close racing has become very boring for 198 laps and mayhem during the last two laps. While this
meets the "uncertainty of outcome" objective, it will eventually result in driver injury and deaths.
Then the fans will scream that racing must be made safe. Safe? A 3500 lb projectile at 200mph can't
be made safe in a crash.
Looking back at the haydays of NASCAR, what were the rules back then? What restrictions were in
place? How many rules were broken as teams sought to level the playing field by themselves?
Look at the innovations developed, not by NASCAR but by clever crew chiefs.
Why does anybody think spec racing is real racing?
There is much more fun to be had at the tailgating parties in the parking lot before the race than
in the overpriced stands during the race.
David you've hit the nail on the head. The issue is the rules makers want parity which isn't the same thing. They do it over and over and over again, never learning from their mistakes. Parity is stupid.
Let's go back to OE body configurations and 86 the ignorant body templates. Let the engineers make the cars safe at speed.
I know jay will disagree like he always does and then make excuses for the sad sack sorry show being out on by both NASCAR and NHRA.
If the blind follow the blind the all end up in the ditch. They are on the edge of the ditch right now.
I don't make excuses pal, and don't really care what you think. So just go ahead and remove my name from your vocabulary!
Intensity and passion getting a little to intense here to continue a constructive conversation. Understand that there are individuals on this forum who are professionals and heavily involved and employed in aspects of these conversations. Hence they are proud of their efforts, careers and organizations and attacking or bashing their fields or endeavors is unnecessary and counterproductive! STOP THAT SHIT!
Obviously it concerns many in the performance and racing fields whether actual participants, suppliers, vendors or just good old enthusiasts and viewers.
I think they are all concerned about the possible shrinkage and potential demise of performance racing of all types. As some have said and know certain forms of racing today like Nascar are also major entertainment venues for racing for their fans, viewers, teams, sponsors as well as the Television entities. In racing the best forms of racing entertainment tend to come from excitement and participation of both the racers, their teams, sponsors, the fans and viewership.
Nascar has been first and foremost made it's racing safer and as speeds and tighter racing became more common place they had to rightly make many changes and rules to improve safety of the fans trackside, the drivers and the support people. When rules go beyond that safety aspect they tend to sometimes go wayward and take some of the excitement and support for that racing. It's being seen in many racing venues and in Nascar it seems to be more prevalent and for many the opinion seems to be it's not doing one very big thing! Growing that Racing Sport for the primary incomes and support for that racing. IE: Fan and viewership growth, team growth, sponsorship growth and televised event growth !!
Bottom Line: If many of the technical changes and rules have not improved those areas OTHER THAN SAFETY, why make them??
Don't use massive crashes from pack racing that in fact has mostly been created by technical rules for parity that are actually worsening the problems!
Seems as though to much parity is actually counterproductive. JMHO
I remember reading a magazine article by the late great engine builder Robert Yates saying that the remedy to superspeedway racing and pack racing was to use smaller cid engines if I remember he mentioned 260 cid with no restrictor plate,He said the smaller engine would give the driver some throttle response to be able to get out of trouble.But I guess he couldn’t convince NASCAR so I guess it was never even tried.
1972HO,do you have any idea how much it would cost to do another engine for just 4 races a year?That had been looked at for years.I had dinner with Dale SNR 2 weeks before he died.He talked about smaller CI and said it was cost preventive to do such a thing for just 4 races.There is no getting out of trouble when you give the fans what they are asking for IMO.40 cars at 190 MPH 2 and 3 wide is going to create mayhem.Im really looking forward to the next few weeks to see what the new package does.Tom
