Sleeves' material

[Matt80]

Hi, I recently got a discussion with a guy about the best material for an high hp/high temp/turbo dry sleeve.
Many companies are selling just ductile iron ones, but he was saying that steel ones would be superior, while they can be made thinner:
what's your experiences about this? Thanks

[PackardV8]

Steel rings on steel sleeves? Probably not. BTW, Ford was using thin-wall steel sleeves (AKA "tin cans") in V8s and tractors in the 1930s. They learned not to do that and later engines didn't.

Determination of Sleeve Wall Thickness: .090" Heavy-wall vs. .040" thin-wall - Make sure you are ordering the correct rebuild kit for your tractor. The diamonds or stars with the serial number denote whether the engine originally had cast iron or hardened steel sleeves. Engines with the star stamped before and after the serial number originally had the steel sleeves with a sleeve wall thickness of 0.040", referred to as "thin wall".

Since the iron sleeve is mostly a wear surface, why is ultimate tensile strength a positive?

[ClassAct]

Not sure about steel sleeves but if you can find a compacted graphite sleeve it will always be better. Rumor was some people were using steel sleeves with Nikasil on them in the late 1990's but I've never verified that.

[CamKing]

We use Iron sleeves from LA Sleeve in California. 9,000rpm, 110" of boost.

[ClassAct]

We use Iron sleeves from LA Sleeve in California. 9,000rpm, 110" of boost.

IIRC those aren't just plain old cheap cast iron.

[hoodeng]

Harley Davidson make cast in thin wall steel sleeve cylinders to suit their bolt in big bore kits that don't require case boring , they run traditional ring sets in them, same as the CI cylinders , but i am lead to believe this is not your traditional 10 or 12 series steels, also i believe this material to be a proprietary product.

Steel has no lubricity ,cast iron has lubricity due to its graphite content [not to mention convenience ] the technology used in cast iron alloy spun cast liners makes them a major cut above run as cast finished iron blocks ,steel liners were used in radials and now sees application in diesel.
Race Engine Technology did an article on steel cylinders.

https://www.highpowermedia.com/blog/386 ... der-liners

The read below sheds light on development and application.

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1730396A4

Cheers.

[modok]

Steel is 15%, or maybe 18% stiffer than good iron, which could be a small advantage.
In most other respects it's worse.

[peejay]

Steel rings on steel sleeves? Probably not. BTW, Ford was using thin-wall steel sleeves (AKA "tin cans") in V8s and tractors in the 1930s. They learned not to do that and later engines didn't.

Determination of Sleeve Wall Thickness: .090" Heavy-wall vs. .040" thin-wall - Make sure you are ordering the correct rebuild kit for your tractor. The diamonds or stars with the serial number denote whether the engine originally had cast iron or hardened steel sleeves. Engines with the star stamped before and after the serial number originally had the steel sleeves with a sleeve wall thickness of 0.040", referred to as "thin wall".

Since the iron sleeve is mostly a wear surface, why is ultimate tensile strength a positive?

Volvo has cracking issues on their high pressure turbo engines with 83mm bores, where the sleeve is poorly supported at the top. Newer engines reverted to 81mm bores.

Interestingly, when Mazda expanded the bore on the Duratec/MZR engine to make the 2.5l (went from 87.5mm to 89mm), they changed the dry sleeve material from cast iron to 4340 steel.

[Newold1]

If sleeve companies like Darton or LA Sleeve don't make steel sleeves that should be enough of an answer to your question!

[engineguyBill]

Ductile iron works very well as a cylinder sleeve material. Ductile iron tubing is frequently used for concrete pumping operations (like pumping concrete from street level up many stories when constructing hi-rise buildings). More than one sleeve manufacturer has used these concrete pumping sleeves to make cylinder sleeves within the fairly recent past . . . . . .

Ductile iron works well with steel (many available coatings) or ductile iron top rings (plasma moly coating), grey iron second rings and chrome plated faces of oil ring rails, as found in most high performance ring sets.

[hoodeng]

Many years ago i recall cylinders for nitro Harley's being made by one supplier from railway rolling stock axle steel ,some at the time thought this was because the axles were made of a grade of steel that suited the application perfectly ,,as a railway employee at that time i knew why the axles were chosen.
They were condemned axles that had not passed an ultrasound test on the end journals ,the centers were fine so there were these metre+ long lengths of 6" to 8" ø forged steel going for scrap price.

Cheers.

[Matt80]

A thinner dry sleeve would let to remove less material from the block, so that it doesn't get too weak in high boost/high temp/track abuse.
So a "good" steel could be ok, and better if nikasil coated, then?
I know that Darton and LA use and sell ductile iron ones, so they won't probably say nothing good about steel ones

[englertracing]

pretty sure that steel with NSC "Nikasil" is the way to go when your sleeves are thin.

[Matt80]

Anyone experienced in steel sleeves?
Would like to know more about allowed thickness, interference, support, how they work dry in a cast iron block etc

[modok]

No problem to put a steel sleeve in whatever, the question is why?

Using a different material might allow special alloys, heat treatment, surface treatments, or coatings that would be THE POINT.
whatever those reasons are....are certain to dictate how we want to put it in the block, and how to hone it, or even IF one can even hone it.