Square groove valvelocks on beadlock groove valvestems

[Caprimaniac]

I am sure there were a discussion at one point. After several search- attempts I gave up....

Buying valvetrain parts is not always as straight forward as one first thought. Sitting here With a set of New valves, beadlock style. Going to use a set of 10 deg keepers & Locks i currently have on another set of heads. Maybe I need to buy another set of Locks; if the old ones are for square grooves?

I also bought in a New set of Locks, going onto the older set of heads, With Edelbrock valves. Looking at the description, it says "conventional" grooves in their valves. Using whatever gifts of deductive thinking I have, I figure they have square grooves. And they will fit.

Trying to figure what installed height the valvesprings will end up at in the New set of heads, I tried the square groove Locks in my New beadlock groove valves. It does look a little sketchy.... The Locks will not line up straight With the valve stem, and the Lock/retainer- Assembly is wiggley..... It moves around alot. It wont' work, or what?

The old Locks (keepers) I was going to use on the New valves are Manley Titanium, 13194T-16. And they are "conventional", according to Manley's catalogue.

After giving it some thought; I think I found some problems when I installed these valvelocks to the Edelbrock valves too; some years ago,, I think they were "loose fit". Maybe they will fit into beadlock grooves?

Is there e rule: beadlock groove locks can be used on beadlock or square groove valves, but square keepers only go on square valves?

Getting another set of Ti Locks just won't happen. Any particular steel type Locks "better" than others?

[groberts101]

Pretty highly stressed part, especially on healthier springs and/or during overrev, lofting, or valvefloat(which is often not severe enough to ever realize it's even occuring).. not even remotely worth the risk considering the small cost of new locks.

Never heard of any "yin yang lock substitution rule" either. Either they nest into their grooves correctly or they don't.. any in betweens can spell big trouble and cost you far more in the long run. Machined beadlocks are cheap and easy to source.. some in + or -.050". One of the pitfalls to watch out for is the LS styles non-standardized 7 degree design. LS is not truly 7 degree and actually 7+ or maybe closer to 8 iirc so be sure what specific retainer design you have before ordering.

[Walter R. Malik]

I am sure there were a discussion at one point. After several search- attempts I gave up....

Buying valvetrain parts is not always as straight forward as one first thought. Sitting here With a set of New valves, beadlock style. Going to use a set of 10 deg keepers & Locks i currently have on another set of heads. Maybe I need to buy another set of Locks; if the old ones are for square grooves?

I also bought in a New set of Locks, going onto the older set of heads, With Edelbrock valves. Looking at the description, it says "conventional" grooves in their valves. Using whatever gifts of deductive thinking I have, I figure they have square grooves. And they will fit.

Trying to figure what installed height the valvesprings will end up at in the New set of heads, I tried the square groove Locks in my New beadlock groove valves. It does look a little sketchy.... The Locks will not line up straight With the valve stem, and the Lock/retainer- Assembly is wiggley..... It moves around alot. It wont' work, or what?

The old Locks (keepers) I was going to use on the New valves are Manley Titanium, 13194T-16. And they are "conventional", according to Manley's catalogue.

After giving it some thought; I think I found some problems when I installed these valvelocks to the Edelbrock valves too; some years ago,, I think they were "loose fit". Maybe they will fit into beadlock grooves?

Is there e rule: beadlock groove locks can be used on beadlock or square groove valves, but square keepers only go on square valves?

Getting another set of Ti Locks just won't happen. Any particular steel type Locks "better" than others?

USE the correct lock. There is no reasoning for taking any kind of chance here.

[EDC]

USE the correct lock. There is no reasoning for taking any kind of chance here.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This - times a million.

[racinnut15xm]

Like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Not happening.

Order beadlock keepers if that's what you need.

Ebay has a good variety of cheap stuff to get an idea of what you need then you can order a whole set of something new in +.050 -.050 or standard.

You have to make sure its 10 degree locks as well, they make 7, super 7 and about 20 others I feel like. If it fits but you are for some reason in doubt keep checking lash after each run, we had one we put -.050 locks on and didn't know it had super 7 retainers, it took a couple nights but each time we would run it the lash would open up a little. I finally figured out what was going on after about the 3rd time I had to tighten all the exhaust valves lash, you could visually see how much further the locks were in the retainers vs the intakes.

[BillK]

You have to make sure its 10 degree locks as well, they make 7, super 7 and about 20 others I feel like.

I have also seen problems using a 10 degree lock from one manufacturer in a 10 degree retainer from a different manufacturer I try to use everything from one manufacturer if i can.

As far as the original post goes there is no way I would try a square groove lock in a bead groove valve.

[MadBill]

Like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Not happening.

Order beadlock keepers if that's what you need.

Ebay has a good variety of cheap stuff to get an idea of what you need then you can order a whole set of something new in +.050 -.050 or standard.

You have to make sure its 10 degree locks as well, they make 7, super 7 and about 20 others I feel like. If it fits but you are for some reason in doubt keep checking lash after each run, we had one we put -.050 locks on and didn't know it had super 7 retainers, it took a couple nights but each time we would run it the lash would open up a little. I finally figured out what was going on after about the 3rd time I had to tighten all the exhaust valves lash, you could visually see how much further the locks were in the retainers vs the intakes.

How is that possible? The keepers having nothing to do with lash.

[racinnut15xm]

My bad Bill, it was spring pressure I was losing. Its been awhile since that happened you straightened my memory out.

[Caprimaniac]

Thanks for the support.... Yes, figured the square didn't fit into the round.

Will order in a set of Manley steel locks; 2 grams more each; hopefully the valvetrain will live with that.


Been runnting Ti locks with Ti retainers for 5-6 years; never been apart. Some here say Ti/ Ti is a bad combo. Well- I'll figure out soon…

By using steel locks, figure taking it apart would be quicker by using a magnet to pick up the lock while pressing down the retainer. Getting the Ti locks off the valvestems and onto the tray or whatever without dropping any, for instance into a oil drain hole in the cylinder head, is a gamble. At least what I learned while installing.

[Kevin Johnson]

Small pieces of non-friable foam to block the oil returns might save you. Long bodied hemostats aren't too expensive and would allow you to insert and retrieve the foam.

[Caprimaniac]

Yes, or epoxy in mesh in all drakn holes as alot of people do ro save the engine when something at the top goes. Maybe I’ll do that anyway...

Any comments on Ti locks and Ti retainers combo- will they ‘weld’ together, or is that just old wife’s tale?

[Caprimaniac]

Managed to get springs and retainers off to mock up some valves on the New heads.


WHAT I HAD FORGOTTEN: Manley Ti "traditional" square keepers are SO shallow. The Ridge are barely visible (by my getting worse evry hour- bad eyes...). If I have to Guess (had no Tools by hand)- they are less than 1mm. 0.5mm, best estimate.

This shape makes them fit the "beadlock" grooves in the valves; 100% clinging to it. BUT: those squares will sit aganst the radiused grooove of the beadlock groove....

Assume, as said earlier, beadlock keepers would be safer, by a high margin, in these valves. Buuuut, it's temptimg to stuff them on there...