200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

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200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by cjperformance » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:40 pm

Hi, I have zero experience with the 200R4 transmission and i am wondering what TQ/HP levels you guys have seen these handle? What modifications were needed to do so, how do they hold up at theis power level.
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Craig.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by wyrmrider » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:27 am

What power level???
If you google you will find more than you need
start with a core from a later high performance model Buick GN or Chevy SS or build to that or PU level
valve body - Transgo reprogramming kit
beef it up as much as you want, clutches, shells etc
If you want lots of power AND lots of life then 4L80
shorter than a 700r4 use whichever fits your chassis best- both need some well known mods

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by cjperformance » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:55 am

Only looking at 450hp in aprox 3500lb car, mainly street use, 2800rpm stall. If this is an ok hp level for the 200, what is needed to make tham live at this level.
What sort of lock up does the 200 use?
Cheers,
Craig.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by ijames » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:44 am

In the turbo v6 Grand Nationals the 200 4R can be built to live down to the low 10's and last a few seasons of weekend racing with maybe a little street driving, at 35-3800 lbs (so about 700 rwhp). Many have gone into the mid 9's but for most guys at that level the durability just isn't there (and the rebuild cost is 2-3x higher than a 400) and they switch to th400's. At www.turbobuick.com in the transmission forum there is a sticky thread with one professional builder's recipe.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by cjperformance » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:25 pm

ijames wrote:In the turbo v6 Grand Nationals the 200 4R can be built to live down to the low 10's and last a few seasons of weekend racing with maybe a little street driving, at 35-3800 lbs (so about 700 rwhp). Many have gone into the mid 9's but for most guys at that level the durability just isn't there (and the rebuild cost is 2-3x higher than a 400) and they switch to th400's. At http://www.turbobuick.com in the transmission forum there is a sticky thread with one professional builder's recipe.
Thankyou for that, I will go and have a look.
Its a toss up between a 200r4 and a 700 in this. It needs to be a 4 speed auto, preferably with cable throttle modulator.
Craig.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by Alan Roehrich » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:48 pm

You need to talk to Lonnie Diers at Extreme Automatics.

And you need to avoid TransGo valvebody kits like the plague. Superior has a much better product. Sonnax, Alto, Superior, and Fairbanks have good pieces, and you can get anything you want or need from Lonnie.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by cjperformance » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:33 pm

Alan Roehrich wrote:You need to talk to Lonnie Diers at Extreme Automatics.

And you need to avoid TransGo valvebody kits like the plague. Superior has a much better product. Sonnax, Alto, Superior, and Fairbanks have good pieces, and you can get anything you want or need from Lonnie.
Thanks Alan I will check Extreme Autos out. I got to say I have always had great results with Trans Go kits, I have used them for 20 odd years. I will say though, that my trans' have been mainly Ford with only a few T350 chev and caddy fwd/400/glides under my belt AND that I have never used a trans go kit in any of the chevy stuff so I cant comment there. I have used fairbanks stuff and thought it was very good.
Cheers,
Craig.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by Alan Roehrich » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:01 pm

cjperformance wrote:
Alan Roehrich wrote:You need to talk to Lonnie Diers at Extreme Automatics.

And you need to avoid TransGo valvebody kits like the plague. Superior has a much better product. Sonnax, Alto, Superior, and Fairbanks have good pieces, and you can get anything you want or need from Lonnie.
Thanks Alan I will check Extreme Autos out. I got to say I have always had great results with Trans Go kits, I have used them for 20 odd years. I will say though, that my trans' have been mainly Ford with only a few T350 chev and caddy fwd/400/glides under my belt AND that I have never used a trans go kit in any of the chevy stuff so I cant comment there. I have used fairbanks stuff and thought it was very good.
Cheers,

I built those things for years. Lonnie and I, along with Bruce Toelle, helped Alto develop their PowerBand for the 200 4R. Bruce and I used to moderate the transmission forum at turbobuick.com, and I can tell you we solved a lot of problems advising people to take the TransGo kits out, and we saw a lot of those rare BRF code 200 4R valve bodies ruined with those kits. Use the Superior kit, with a billet servo, and at least the 0.500" diameter TV boost valve and 0.300" diameter reverse boost valve. I've had good success with the 0.530" TV boost valve. The Superior kit with those two valves in the pump will give you excellent line pressure rise, which is the key to getting the friction materials to live.

As far as the hard parts go, Lonnie has good stuff, so does Scott McClay, and so does Bruce Toelle. The part you'll really need is the forward input drum with the 4340 shaft. Use the Alto HP series clutch packs, and the Alto red PowerBand.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by Horndog » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:57 am

The 200 can be built to handle some serious HP so for what you are wanting, one properly built will last you a good long time. As with any automatic, heat is its worst enemy.

Stay away from the 700. It has a much deeper first gear and overall, its gear spread sucks. The 200 has one of the better gear spreads of the GM overdrives. Just be mindfull of the TV cable and the need to have the correct bracket at the carb for the TV cable for the correct adjustment/setting.
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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by wyrmrider » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:17 pm

200 vs 700 which one fits your chassis best
Either can be easily built to your power level
you can out trick yourself and try and match the low low gear trans with a high rear end and the high low gear trans with a low rear end
check trans length, output shaft, mounts

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by pdq67 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:20 pm

For a built 200, please hunt up Jakeshoe as well as the real Art Carr. I think Bruce is in here to, but it's been a while??

I don't know if ANYBODY has gotten the 700 to live at extreme BBC 496/540 power and torque levels long term.

There was an old post somewhere that was like, "We will make this work or else", talking about the guy wanting to use a built 700 behind a BBC that he wanted to show off with at the car shows by wide open down shifting it from 4th or maybe 3rd to 2nd or maybe even 1st?..Sucker gave up on trying to do it after onna his friends came back and said he finally gave up on it.

And I think Jake can set you up with a totally manual shifted 4L80 so ask.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by TexasT » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:44 pm

Alan Roehrich wrote:
cjperformance wrote:
Alan Roehrich wrote:You need to talk to Lonnie Diers at Extreme Automatics.

And you need to avoid TransGo valvebody kits like the plague. Superior has a much better product. Sonnax, Alto, Superior, and Fairbanks have good pieces, and you can get anything you want or need from Lonnie.
Thanks Alan I will check Extreme Autos out. I got to say I have always had great results with Trans Go kits, I have used them for 20 odd years. I will say though, that my trans' have been mainly Ford with only a few T350 chev and caddy fwd/400/glides under my belt AND that I have never used a trans go kit in any of the chevy stuff so I cant comment there. I have used fairbanks stuff and thought it was very good.
Cheers,

I built those things for years. Lonnie and I, along with Bruce Toelle, helped Alto develop their PowerBand for the 200 4R. Bruce and I used to moderate the transmission forum at turbobuick.com, and I can tell you we solved a lot of problems advising people to take the TransGo kits out, and we saw a lot of those rare BRF code 200 4R valve bodies ruined with those kits. Use the Superior kit, with a billet servo, and at least the 0.500" diameter TV boost valve and 0.300" diameter reverse boost valve. I've had good success with the 0.530" TV boost valve. The Superior kit with those two valves in the pump will give you excellent line pressure rise, which is the key to getting the friction materials to live.

As far as the hard parts go, Lonnie has good stuff, so does Scott McClay, and so does Bruce Toelle. The part you'll really need is the forward input drum with the 4340 shaft. Use the Alto HP series clutch packs, and the Alto red PowerBand.
Where can I get the .530 boost valve? I see the .500 all over. Some places sell a .555 and .570. But I can't locate a .530 though d husek I was told sells a .521
Thanks.
Rich

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by falcongeorge » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:34 pm

Horndog wrote:The 200 can be built to handle some serious HP so for what you are wanting, one properly built will last you a good long time. As with any automatic, heat is its worst enemy.

Stay away from the 700. It has a much deeper first gear and overall, its gear spread sucks. The 200 has one of the better gear spreads of the GM overdrives. Just be mindfull of the TV cable and the need to have the correct bracket at the carb for the TV cable for the correct adjustment/setting.
X2 on this, I have a 700 in my truck (it was in there when I bought it) and a 200 in my chevy II, if I had built the truck, it would have a 200. The 1/2 shift recovery point is abysmal with the 700. On street tires, it blows the tires off in first, then falls on its ass off the shift. I'm actually seriously considering one of the $600 close ratio gear sets for the truck, just to make it more fun to drive.
EDIT: should add, the rear gear in the Chevy II is 4.11 with a 26" tire, the truck is 4.56 with a 28" tire, so effective rear gear is about the same.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by falcongeorge » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:12 pm

Alan Roehrich wrote:
cjperformance wrote:
Alan Roehrich wrote:You need to talk to Lonnie Diers at Extreme Automatics.

And you need to avoid TransGo valvebody kits like the plague. Superior has a much better product. Sonnax, Alto, Superior, and Fairbanks have good pieces, and you can get anything you want or need from Lonnie.
I built those things for years. Lonnie and I, along with Bruce Toelle, helped Alto develop their PowerBand for the 200 4R. Bruce and I used to moderate the transmission forum at turbobuick.com, and I can tell you we solved a lot of problems advising people to take the TransGo kits out, and we saw a lot of those rare BRF code 200 4R valve bodies ruined with those kits. Use the Superior kit, with a billet servo, and at least the 0.500" diameter TV boost valve and 0.300" diameter reverse boost valve. I've had good success with the 0.530" TV boost valve. The Superior kit with those two valves in the pump will give you excellent line pressure rise, which is the key to getting the friction materials to live.

As far as the hard parts go, Lonnie has good stuff, so does Scott McClay, and so does Bruce Toelle. The part you'll really need is the forward input drum with the 4340 shaft. Use the Alto HP series clutch packs, and the Alto red PowerBand.
Alan, I have a transgo 2-3 kit, corvette servo and .422 reverse boost valve in the 700R4 in my truck. As I understand it, the Transgo 2-3 kit has a .500 TV boost valve included with the kit? I bought the truck with the trans in there and a handful of reciepts. I plan to pull the trans for a converter and speedo gear swap this spring, would it be worthwhile to go to a bigger boost valve, servo and swap the kit out while I have it out? What do you usually do in the 700's? The trans seems to work ok, shift isnt as firm/quick as I am used to, but I had a TA reverse manual valve body in the C-6 in my old Falcon, so I am used to pretty harsh.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by Alan Roehrich » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:38 pm

If the valve body has not been drilled, you can install the Superior kit. If it has been drilled, you'll need a different valvebody. You will need a new separator plate as well.

Yes, the bigger valves will help.

Sonnax now has a new planetary set that gets rid of the excessive 3.06:1 first gear, and changes it to something much more manageable in the 2.7:1 range, also narrowing the drop between first and second gear.

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