200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by falcongeorge » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:39 pm

Alan Roehrich wrote:If the valve body has not been drilled, you can install the Superior kit. If it has been drilled, you'll need a different valvebody. You will need a new separator plate as well.

Yes, the bigger valves will help.

Sonnax now has a new planetary set that gets rid of the excessive 3.06:1 first gear, and changes it to something much more manageable in the 2.7:1 range, also narrowing the drop between first and second gear.
Yes, I was looking at the Sonnax planetary kit. The 3.06x4.56 roughly equates to a 5.57 behind a T350, so I guess its no surprise that if you hammer it from a roll on street tires, it goes up in smoke :roll: . Great for scaring the beejesus out of your Car & Driver type friends, but not overly useful. Sure, you could change to a 3.73, but then 2nd gear shift recovery is going to REALLY go to hell in a handbasket.
Alan, not trying to be a PITA, but curiousity forces me to ask, what specifically is wrong with the transgo kits? Pretty sure I will need another valve body, but thats not a huge deal...

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by cjperformance » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:01 pm

Swayed a bit from my 200 Q but all good! This is all good info aswell. :D
Craig.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by falcongeorge » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:23 pm

as often happens, one question leads to another...and another, and so on... #-o :D

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by Alan Roehrich » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:08 pm

From my experience, the Trans-Go kits do not have near enough line pressure rise with a given throttle valve input. That, combined with the goofy stuff they do with shift timing and valve body drilling has always resulted in unhappy customers.

The Superior stuff is simple, clean, and effective, you get good line pressure rise, good shift timing, and good shift quality, without goofy behavior.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by falcongeorge » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:41 pm

Alan Roehrich wrote:From my experience, the Trans-Go kits do not have near enough line pressure rise with a given throttle valve input. That, combined with the goofy stuff they do with shift timing and valve body drilling has always resulted in unhappy customers.

The Superior stuff is simple, clean, and effective, you get good line pressure rise, good shift timing, and good shift quality, without goofy behavior.
Very concise answer. Thanks Alan. I will take your advice to heart, when I change converters, I will also do a new valve body and bigger TV valve. One thing I have noticed with the Transgo valve body that I find irritating, in drive, it shifts into second VERY early (like about 3500 rpm :roll: ), even if you are into the throttle fairly deep

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by Alan Roehrich » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:01 pm

falcongeorge wrote:
Alan Roehrich wrote:From my experience, the Trans-Go kits do not have near enough line pressure rise with a given throttle valve input. That, combined with the goofy stuff they do with shift timing and valve body drilling has always resulted in unhappy customers.

The Superior stuff is simple, clean, and effective, you get good line pressure rise, good shift timing, and good shift quality, without goofy behavior.
Very concise answer. Thanks Alan. I will take your advice to heart, when I change converters, I will also do a new valve body and bigger TV valve. One thing I have noticed with the Transgo valve body that I find irritating, in drive, it shifts into second VERY early (like about 3500 rpm :roll: ), even if you are into the throttle fairly deep

Typical of poor line pressure rise. It is very critical on the 200 4R and the 700 R4 to have really good line pressure rise with throttle valve pressure, it's what makes them work.

I've seen the TransGo kits yield practically no line pressure rise in some cases. Instant death for either transmission if you try to drive it, much less race it.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by falcongeorge » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:37 pm

Alan Roehrich wrote:
falcongeorge wrote:
Alan Roehrich wrote:From my experience, the Trans-Go kits do not have near enough line pressure rise with a given throttle valve input. That, combined with the goofy stuff they do with shift timing and valve body drilling has always resulted in unhappy customers.

The Superior stuff is simple, clean, and effective, you get good line pressure rise, good shift timing, and good shift quality, without goofy behavior.
Very concise answer. Thanks Alan. I will take your advice to heart, when I change converters, I will also do a new valve body and bigger TV valve. One thing I have noticed with the Transgo valve body that I find irritating, in drive, it shifts into second VERY early (like about 3500 rpm :roll: ), even if you are into the throttle fairly deep

Typical of poor line pressure rise. It is very critical on the 200 4R and the 700 R4 to have really good line pressure rise with throttle valve pressure, it's what makes them work.

I've seen the TransGo kits yield practically no line pressure rise in some cases. Instant death for either transmission if you try to drive it, much less race it.
Which leads me to another question. Have you seen similar issues with B&M shift kits in 700R4's? The reason I ask, a guy I correspond with a fair bit on another forum recently lunched the 700R4 in his truck, it had a B&M kit in it. The TV cable was adjusted properly. Six months before, the trans lost engine braking in 2nd and 3rd. The band pin wasn't broken, the servo wasn't damaged, and the valve body seemed to be otherwise functioning normally, so to me, this indicates that the clutches and or band are on the way out, which could be pressure related?? He didnt notice any debris in the fluid until after the trans blew up, then there was some... :lol:
This was a similar deal to my truck, similar internal mods to the trans, same converter, pretty much same HP/performance level/hook and vehicle wieght.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by Alan Roehrich » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:43 pm

I have no idea about the B&M kit, I don't use them, and don't know anyone who does. I have not seen anything they make that I'd want to fool with.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by falcongeorge » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:21 pm

Thanks Alan. Lots of good info in this thread...

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:49 pm

Can the TV valve in the valve body of the TH2004r be blocked/fixed in position to convert
to constant line pressure and eliminate the TV cable on the carb.

My th350 is modified like this. The "kickdown cable" is eliminated.
The valve is blocked in position in the valve body. Works great.
Simple no fuss no fail. Easy part throttle shifts and comfortable street driving with a high stall converter.. Trans shifts firm,, "now", when it shifts or you shift it @ WOT (no upshift shift overlap, slip or lag... but is not harsh at all. No down side other than no throttle inducted "kickdown". Eliminates the kickdown cable.

Can the th2004r be modified the same?

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by TexasT » Sun May 17, 2015 11:02 pm

Yes, there is a mod that can set the internal trans pressure to a constant, but I wouldn't reccomend it. It is hard on the pump parts to be run like that. Might work for a track only car. GM spent millions developing the tv system. When setup and adjusted properly, it works very well.
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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by twright55 » Mon May 18, 2015 9:29 am

For a heavy. high torque, low rpm situation (like 4000lbs, 500ftlbs and 5500rpm max) for street use, would you still recommend a 200r4 over a 700? Would the 200 require extensive improvements to handle that? Transmission tunnel space is an issue for me, plus the better gear spacing of the 200 is attractive. But I was under the impression that a 200 is not good for that situation. A 4l80E would NEVER fit my car. 700s can be made to barely fit if you trim a bunch of aluminum off the case. A 200 would be perfect if it could handle it. Current trans is a leaky, worn out torqueflite.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by wyrmrider » Tue May 19, 2015 9:59 am

Why hide what motor and vehicle you are modding
TF is a stronger trans
are you just wanting OD?

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by Alan Roehrich » Tue May 19, 2015 6:41 pm

You can now buy a much better forward input drum, and a close ratio 2.75:1 low gear set for the 700 R4/ 4L60 / 4L60E / 4L65E now, among other parts. Those parts make that transmission family a much better and more viable option. Especially considering the fact that the 200 4R supply is very limited.

You're still looking at $3K or better to build a good version of either unit. There may be others that will build a cheap version, but I don't know anyone I'd trust that will. I certainly will not.

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Re: 200R4 Tq/Hp capacity?

Post by twright55 » Tue May 19, 2015 8:25 pm

wyrmrider wrote:Why hide what motor and vehicle you are modding
TF is a stronger trans
are you just wanting OD?
Who's 'hiding' anything? Did anybody else list the specific car their transmission might be going into? Is it that important? I guess it shouldn't take a genius to figure out it's probably going behind a 440 with the info I gave.
Anyway, the overdrive is secondary, but still an advantage. Mainly it's a better first gear (but 3.06 is just too low and too big of a jump to 2nd...even for a large, torquey v8), and IF I ever find a better set of gears for the rear end, THEN the overdrive WILL be a real advantage.
In the mean-time, my torqueflite leaks out of both ends (after sitting for decades) and slips in D until warmed up (my understanding is that's a sign of a worn front bushing), but still gets me around. But it's going to cost money to rebuild (when that time comes...and it's coming), and maybe only just X amount more to upgrade to a 4spd while I'm at it. Hell, I might even go 4 or 5spd manual if I can figure out how to mount a clutch pedal ;)

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