Don't know why this never came up before in my (can it be?) 50 years of racing, but suddenly I'm hearing that racing tires (specifically road race/circle track, but no reason I know of that it shouldn't apply equally to drag race) subjected to extended periods of sub-zero temperatures are irreparably degraded in grip.
The claim is that the molecular and chemical changes and migration of resins and other compounds, etc. within the rubber that account for seasoning, developing maximum traction at some specific temperature, heat cycling effects and the eventual conversion of our prized grippy gumballs into something akin to synthetic mahogany, are affected (perhaps a little like a negative version of the cryogenic treatment of metal parts) in a way that prevents them from ever again reaching their potential.
We had a possible example of this today, when a previously perfectly good, little used year old set of rain tires were left on a car in an unheated trailer through an Ontario Canada winter (minimum overnight low of minus 25° F.) They were totally undrivable in a moderate rain at Mosport today, converting a race wining car/driver combo into a bad joke that spun out of last place 4 turns into the first lap.
Anyone heard of this and/or any technical explanation of what's going on?
Frozen Tires = Ruined?
Moderator: Team
Frozen Tires = Ruined?
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.
Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.
Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.
a Bridgestone Rep told me that this happens because the oils in the natural rubber compound freeze out making the tires overly hard. This is a non-reversible process. The more naturla rubbe in a tire the worse it gets. Basically the same like freeze drying coffee beans............
if you keep your new drag slicks out in the winter you can almost be sure that the first launch turns into a drift challenge........something the southern folks don't worry about
if you keep your new drag slicks out in the winter you can almost be sure that the first launch turns into a drift challenge........something the southern folks don't worry about
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bill jones
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-sort of had to chuckle about the frozen tire story.
-having raced my own oval track cars for about 15 years and being on a budget the entire time----tire preservation became about the very most important thing we did an a regular basis---both for car performance and to get the most productive race miles out of our tires.
-understanding those precious few square inches of tire patch that are actually responsible for getting the maximum performance out of the car is a science in itself.
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-a side note about that low temperature----is I have seen guys from the rocky mountain states pull 500 miles to race like in Phoenix or Las Vegas in late January--where it's still winter in the mountains and yet you get sunburned at the lower altitudes----and find the blocks have split from freezing the water in the engine blocks----from the trip to or returning from the lower altitudes.
-having raced my own oval track cars for about 15 years and being on a budget the entire time----tire preservation became about the very most important thing we did an a regular basis---both for car performance and to get the most productive race miles out of our tires.
-understanding those precious few square inches of tire patch that are actually responsible for getting the maximum performance out of the car is a science in itself.
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-a side note about that low temperature----is I have seen guys from the rocky mountain states pull 500 miles to race like in Phoenix or Las Vegas in late January--where it's still winter in the mountains and yet you get sunburned at the lower altitudes----and find the blocks have split from freezing the water in the engine blocks----from the trip to or returning from the lower altitudes.
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Metrobilly
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I store tires in an unheated shed over the winter where they see temperatures into single digits (F) without any noticeable degradation. In fact I think they store better cold than over the hot summer. I have no experience with the extreme cold that you describe, fortunately.
I have found that used tires store much better when sealed in plastic trash bags. The surface tends to degrade over time when in contact with air. Heat, ozone, exhaust and solvent fumes worsen this. A race tire fresh off the track then promptly sealed in a bag can be stored for many months and will have grip immediately when put back in service. However if the same tire is left uncovered in a trailer or shop for an extended time it must be run for a time to wear off the degraded surface layer before it "wakes up" again. And, it will never work as well as the tire that was sealed in a plastic bag. I think storage becomes more important after the tires first heat cycle.
My rain tires live in bags and only come out for a few hours at a time when the weather calls for them. Storage in an tire rack for a year was likely at least part of the problem
I have found that used tires store much better when sealed in plastic trash bags. The surface tends to degrade over time when in contact with air. Heat, ozone, exhaust and solvent fumes worsen this. A race tire fresh off the track then promptly sealed in a bag can be stored for many months and will have grip immediately when put back in service. However if the same tire is left uncovered in a trailer or shop for an extended time it must be run for a time to wear off the degraded surface layer before it "wakes up" again. And, it will never work as well as the tire that was sealed in a plastic bag. I think storage becomes more important after the tires first heat cycle.
My rain tires live in bags and only come out for a few hours at a time when the weather calls for them. Storage in an tire rack for a year was likely at least part of the problem
I drag race occasionally, and store my tires over the winter. I coat the entire tire, tread and sidewall, with silicone tire shine in a spray can. I use around 3 cans to do two tires, and give them a heavy coat. My theory, is that it keeps the oxygen (and any other atmospheric gases) away from the rubber, preserving them. I do this with them at full pressure, so the surface of the tire is spread out as much as possible. I then let the air down.
They are also stored in a cool place where light can't get to them and break them down. Ozone is bad for rubber as well. Ozone is produced from anything that makes sparks, so tires should be kept away from electric motors.
My tires are stored under the dry crawlspace under the house.
I got my 7 year old drag slicks out from under the house after they had been stored for six years. (car lost engine and got hit from behind) and they still pushed my street 1966 4-speed 302 mustang to a 1.51 60ft, which is pretty good for the car. It took a pretty hard burnout to get the slick silicone off the tire, and it spun on the first pass, but after a strong burnout, they worked just fine on the successive passes.
Good Luck!
They are also stored in a cool place where light can't get to them and break them down. Ozone is bad for rubber as well. Ozone is produced from anything that makes sparks, so tires should be kept away from electric motors.
My tires are stored under the dry crawlspace under the house.
I got my 7 year old drag slicks out from under the house after they had been stored for six years. (car lost engine and got hit from behind) and they still pushed my street 1966 4-speed 302 mustang to a 1.51 60ft, which is pretty good for the car. It took a pretty hard burnout to get the slick silicone off the tire, and it spun on the first pass, but after a strong burnout, they worked just fine on the successive passes.
Good Luck!
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Masher Manufacturing
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Back in the early 90's did engines and fab work for a Trans Am road race
team. The team had left Ohio in late winter to do some tire testing in late
winter for Hoosier (they were on a Hoosier deal) in Atlanta GA.
When they came back with all these new compound tires they were called and told when unloading the tires do not just toss them out of the trailer when unloading. The temps here when they got back was below freezing.
That it would damage the tires due to they were like plastic when subject
to cold temps ,but were sticky as hell when hot! (I beleave his name was Bruce) Brent
team. The team had left Ohio in late winter to do some tire testing in late
winter for Hoosier (they were on a Hoosier deal) in Atlanta GA.
When they came back with all these new compound tires they were called and told when unloading the tires do not just toss them out of the trailer when unloading. The temps here when they got back was below freezing.
That it would damage the tires due to they were like plastic when subject
to cold temps ,but were sticky as hell when hot! (I beleave his name was Bruce) Brent
Yokohama tires specifically recommends against cold storage on one of their tires, but not others so I suspect it depends on the specific tread compound.
I store tires outside under the deck inside heavy (3 mil) contractors trash bags and have not noticed any major degradation on them (Yokohama performance street tires). I have prepped the tires before storage with Trackclaw tire preparation compound. It is supposed to improve the rubber wear and traction characteristics without "softening" the rubber.
http://www.trackclaw.com/trackenter.htm
I have also rubbed tires down with a coating of ATF after long storage and let them rest for a couple days after that coating to put some "life" back into the tires.
Ozone and light exposure are the major tire killers as I understand it for tires in general but as noted above, some tires do have storage temperature cautions.
http://www.hoosiertire.com/faqrr.htm
My understanding is the heavy cracking you see in the sidewalls of tires on long abandoned cars is mostly due to freezing damage over multiple winters.
Here is yet another view on tire storage -- obviously there are a wide range of suggestions -- who is correct? I would guess the manufactures recommendations for a specific tire would trump generic guidelines.
http://www.stockcarracing.com/tipstrick ... index.html
Larry
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... Neova+AD07ADVAN Neova tires must be used and stored at temperatures above -10 degrees Celsius (14 degrees Fahrenheit) to maintain its performance and avoid tire damage.
I store tires outside under the deck inside heavy (3 mil) contractors trash bags and have not noticed any major degradation on them (Yokohama performance street tires). I have prepped the tires before storage with Trackclaw tire preparation compound. It is supposed to improve the rubber wear and traction characteristics without "softening" the rubber.
http://www.trackclaw.com/trackenter.htm
I have also rubbed tires down with a coating of ATF after long storage and let them rest for a couple days after that coating to put some "life" back into the tires.
Ozone and light exposure are the major tire killers as I understand it for tires in general but as noted above, some tires do have storage temperature cautions.
http://www.hoosiertire.com/faqrr.htm
7. What are the do's and don'ts when storing Hoosier race tires at the end of the racing season?
TIRE STORAGE
The useful life of a tire, whether mounted or dismounted, is directly affected by storage conditions. Tires should always be stored indoors in a dark, cool, dry room.
DO
1 Remove the tires from the vehicle.
2. Remove the air from the tires and store them on their side in a cool/dark/dry environment.
3. Place tires in a black plastic bag when stored during the "off-season".
4. Make sure the temperature range in the storage location is between 40-90 degrees Fahrenheit.
DON'T
1. Don't store tires in direct sunlight or near electric motors. (Electric motors emit small amounts of ozone.) Tires need to be protected from light, especially sunlight. Light causes ultraviolet damage by breaking down the rubber compounds. The storeroom should not contain electrical welding or any other equipment that could produce ozone.
2. Don't apply any chemical treatments to Hoosier tires. (It's not necessary and may actually damage the integrity of the tire by breaking down the rubber properties of the tire.) Tires must not be allowed to come in contact with oils, greases, solvents, or other petroleum products that cause rubber to soften or deteriorate.
3. Don't store tires in sub-freezing temperatures for any length of time. (The rubber can freeze and may crack as a result.) (Top)
My understanding is the heavy cracking you see in the sidewalls of tires on long abandoned cars is mostly due to freezing damage over multiple winters.
Here is yet another view on tire storage -- obviously there are a wide range of suggestions -- who is correct? I would guess the manufactures recommendations for a specific tire would trump generic guidelines.
http://www.stockcarracing.com/tipstrick ... index.html
Larry
Thanks for the insights guys; keep them coming! There seems to be a consensus that freezing is bad, but not re why or how bad. No one's in favour of "cryogenic treatment" though, so I guess the smart move is to avoid it! 
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.
Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.
Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.
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David Redszus
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Obtaining accurate tire engineering information is on a par with Mission Impossible. If you are able to make a connection to a tire engineer use it and keep a good relationship.
Here is my understanding.
A new tire is essentially green in that the polymers are not fully cured. When they are run through a heat cycle, of about 300 deg minutes, and allowed to cool, the polymerization process continues. A heat cycled tire will not have quite as much grip but will last much longer. The interesting part is not the heating but the slow cooling that completes the cure.
Is it possible that freezing temps are merely an extension of the heat cycle cool down process?
Tires that are not used for periods of time will tend to show sidewall cracks. This is because the wax contained in the rubber works its way outward when the tire is used to prevent oxidiation. When not used the tire is subject to surface oxidation. Logically, an unused tire should be wrapped in airtight wrapping to prevent oxidation.
Have you discussed your tire symptoms with your friendly tire engineer?
You do have one, eh?
Here is my understanding.
A new tire is essentially green in that the polymers are not fully cured. When they are run through a heat cycle, of about 300 deg minutes, and allowed to cool, the polymerization process continues. A heat cycled tire will not have quite as much grip but will last much longer. The interesting part is not the heating but the slow cooling that completes the cure.
Is it possible that freezing temps are merely an extension of the heat cycle cool down process?
Tires that are not used for periods of time will tend to show sidewall cracks. This is because the wax contained in the rubber works its way outward when the tire is used to prevent oxidiation. When not used the tire is subject to surface oxidation. Logically, an unused tire should be wrapped in airtight wrapping to prevent oxidation.
Have you discussed your tire symptoms with your friendly tire engineer?
You do have one, eh?
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Masher Manufacturing
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""DON'T
1. Don't store tires in direct sunlight or near electric motors. (Electric motors emit small amounts of ozone.) ""
Wont this ever die? Only brush type electric motors make ozone due to brush arcing. Brush type motors are typicaly only used for starters,electric drills, hair dryers and such. Most home / shop motors are induction motors and don't use brushes.
1. Don't store tires in direct sunlight or near electric motors. (Electric motors emit small amounts of ozone.) ""
Wont this ever die? Only brush type electric motors make ozone due to brush arcing. Brush type motors are typicaly only used for starters,electric drills, hair dryers and such. Most home / shop motors are induction motors and don't use brushes.