Data Loggers

Tech questions that don't fit above forums

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383Malibu
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Post by 383Malibu »

David Redszus wrote:For those who are currently running data collection systems, what sensors do you use? How do you use the data?
We have a Racepak V-300 with the following sensors
1. engine rpm
2. clutch rpm
3. driveshaft rpm
4. clutch switch
5. oil pressure
6. fuel pressure
7. oil temp
8. water temp
9. pan vacuum
10. voltage
11. 2 O2
12. acceleration g force
13. lateral g force
We use #1-#3 to tune the clutch.
#4 to "zero" each pass (for ease in overlayng and comparing various passes)
#5-#10 to identify potential engine and/or electrical problems
#11 to tune the carb (just aded and haven't been out yet)
#12-#13 really don't use
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Post by David Redszus »

Roger
Here are a few thoughts to help expand the use of your data system.

Plot O2 vs RPM
Plot O2 vs inline acceleration
Arrange an accelerometer into the vertical axis and mount on rear axle to measure wheel hop.
Plot inlet air temp vs O2
Plot inlet air temp vs vehicle speed
Plot O2 vs throttle position, review at launch and each shift
Mount accelerometer to engine (or trans) to measure engine vibration.
Plot oil pressure vs temp vs rpm
Examine rpm trace for evidence of engine misfires

There are literally hundreds of applications for data collection. But not all need to be measured all the time.
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Alan Roehrich
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Post by Alan Roehrich »

In many cases you'll find the accelerometer is mounted inside the main case on data loggers. Even those with multiple accelerometers most often mount them in the case.
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Post by cboggs »

I have considerable experience with data logging from my
formula car road racing days and pro stock, ..
it's the best money that can be spent on a car!

I'm working with Edelbrock to learn their system and may
start selling and supporting them on the east coast.

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Post by 383Malibu »

We got the V-300 in 2002, when we first went to a Liberty clutchless 5-speed… and have absolutely no regrets about either purchase.

The only bad news with a data logger is that they are addictive. But, we saved one engine and caught several problems before they became severe just by spending time looking at the data after every pass.

David – Thanks for the suggestions. As I mentioned, the O2 sensors are brand new but we plan to hit the track in the next couple of weeks to give them a work out. As Alan posted, the accelerometers in the V-300 are built into the case (which is permanently mounted to the roll cage), but we do plan to add rear shock travel sensors to see what the rear suspension is doing.

Between the new motor, new clutch, lots of chassis work, the Racepak and the MSD-7531, I expect we will be in data overflow mode for a while. Wish us luck!
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Post by David Redszus »

I expect we will be in data overflow mode for a while. Wish us luck!
I think what you guys need is a data geek to help sort the data. Preferrably one with nice legs and huge knockers.

It helps the crew pay attention to the data.
Or not.
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Post by hotrod »

Mount accelerometer to engine (or trans) to measure engine vibration.
David :
Which axis orientation, and what specifically are you looking for?
Lateral motion from torque reactions or vertical motion from broken engine mounts and chassis flex, or can you see vibration generated by detonation, or misfire?

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Post by 383Malibu »

David Redszus wrote:I think what you guys need is a data geek to help sort the data. Preferrably one with nice legs and huge knockers.
Have any recommendations? :D Please send pictures and contact information.
David Redszus wrote:It helps the crew pay attention to the data.
Or not.
Well... I'm sure it would help them pay attention to some data curves... but probably not related to the car. :D
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Post by David Redszus »

hotrod wrote:David :
Which axis orientation, and what specifically are you looking for?
Lateral motion from torque reactions or vertical motion from broken engine mounts and chassis flex, or can you see vibration generated by detonation, or misfire?

Larry
Typically, engines will rotate with torque which will be resisted by the engine mounts. Oil soaked rubber mounts will allow excessive movement as will mounts that are too soft for the torque forces. The mounts were designed for stock engines.

But engines also move vertically due to imbalance issues which must also be absorbed by the damping effects of motor mounts.

Racers will sometimes use solid motor (or trans) mounts, which then transfers vibrations into the frame or chassis. Now the whole car shakes, rattles and rolls.

Random misfires do not usually present sufficient amplitude for accurate measurement. A dead cylinder is another matter and would be obvious.

The fundamental frequencies produced by detonation are on the order of 5-7kHz and might require a more accurate accelerometer. They are called knock sensors. Separating the knock signal from other engine noise can be a problem but there are techniques and methods which can be used.

Engine vibrations are usually present as orders of engine speed. At 6000 rpm, which is 100Hz, we would expect to see vibration peaks at 200,300,400Hz, etc.

Most data loggers don't do a very good job of data analysis. But many allow collected data to be exported into an Excel spreadsheet where data analysis becomes unlimited.
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Post by hotrod »

I thought you had a specific issue you were recommending could be isolated by an accelerator mounted on the engine. Knock sensors are obvious and well known application being standard equipment on most all the modern engines.

I take it than, that a new engine should be logged and then you can compare that characteristic vibration signature over time and things like piston slap, bearings getting shaky etc. would show up in a noticeable change in the engines vibration signature.
To measure torsional vibration, the sensor would be mounted horizontally high on the engine to put it as far as possible from the axis or rotation?

Just trying to identify what specific issues could be diagnosed this way which would be very difficult to locate by any other method.

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Post by Grocerius Maximus »

David Redszus wrote:Most data loggers don't do a very good job of data analysis. But many allow collected data to be exported into an Excel spreadsheet where data analysis becomes unlimited.
Ever tried an AIM or Motec? Software is awesome.
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Post by cboggs »

Grocerius Maximus wrote:Ever tried an AIM or Motec? Software is awesome.
I had an Aim system in my formula ford, .. and loved it !!
Someone told me they are doing a drag race system now, .. is that true?

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RayJE Carburetors
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Post by RayJE Carburetors »

Curtis im pretty sure the guy who designed the edelbrock quick data now does his own ... his website is www.rpmperf.com
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Post by Dave Koehler »

Close but not quite right. Randy @ RPM made one a while back and it got bought out by Autometer. The "No compete" thing expired and RPM was born.
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RayJE Carburetors
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Post by RayJE Carburetors »

thanks dave

i heard his loggers were good .... well priced.....
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