Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

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Tuner
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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by Tuner » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:47 pm

David Redszus wrote:The octane response of aromatic compounds will depend on the amount of lead that is used.

Lead...........0.............2...........4 (g/gal)
oXylene.......100.3........100.0......100.0
mXylene......115.0........119.5......121.5
pXylene.......109.6........117.1......122.0
indolene......107.0........103.5......103.5
Toluene......109.1.......113.0.....114.0
Ethanol …..Research Method …… 107 ……. + 3 ml TEL/gal = 102

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by Walter R. Malik » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:10 pm

MrWOT wrote:Water works great to slow things down. But using a good pump makes all the difference, water likes 90+psi to atomize nicely. Adding alcohol changes things.
Although water/alcohol injection can help control detonation ... it COSTS power.
It is best to not have any detonation in the first place.
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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by Matt Gruber » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:15 pm

Walter R. Malik wrote:
MrWOT wrote:Water works great to slow things down. But using a good pump makes all the difference, water likes 90+psi to atomize nicely. Adding alcohol changes things.
Although water/alcohol injection can help control detonation ... it COSTS power.
It is best to not have any detonation in the first place.

well, given a choice of 22 psi boost and 1/4 times that were at least ONE SECOND quicker, i'll take it....
your comment is akin to a smart azz saying a roots blower COSTS like 200hp to turn the blower! NO SHEET. :lol:
.
SO the Q is,
a guy builds an engine that runs great on 93,
BUT a rip-off gas station sells 93 that is really 87!
SO how do you deal with that?
I'd switch on some water injection and avoid that station, and file a complaint with the state "weights and measures" dept.
.
.
tame a lumpy cam for the street, more street torque! see my article, archived in the waybackmachine.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130707064 ... TGRU/carb/
Great manners equals more fun.

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by Walter R. Malik » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:32 pm

Matt Gruber wrote:
Walter R. Malik wrote:
MrWOT wrote:Water works great to slow things down. But using a good pump makes all the difference, water likes 90+psi to atomize nicely. Adding alcohol changes things.
Although water/alcohol injection can help control detonation ... it COSTS power.
It is best to not have any detonation in the first place.

well, given a choice of 22 psi boost and 1/4 times that were at least ONE SECOND quicker, i'll take it....
your comment is akin to a smart azz saying a roots blower COSTS like 200hp to turn the blower! NO SHEET. :lol:
.
Nothing "smart ass" about it ... it is not even close to the same scenario as your asinine supercharger comment ... as if increasing power when running a roots supercharger can be akin to water/alcohol injection.
When you simply run the correct octane gasoline to begin with, you'll make more power all the way around. Water/Alcohol injection works because it makes the cylinder pressure more controlled and cooler, (and less of it essentially putting out some of the fire) so, its use will COST power.
Water/Alcohol injection is merely a Band-Aid for using inferior octane fuel to correctly perform the job at hand which it can't do alone.
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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by dfree383 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:15 pm

Matt Gruber wrote:
Walter R. Malik wrote:
MrWOT wrote:Water works great to slow things down. But using a good pump makes all the difference, water likes 90+psi to atomize nicely. Adding alcohol changes things.
Although water/alcohol injection can help control detonation ... it COSTS power.
It is best to not have any detonation in the first place.

well, given a choice of 22 psi boost and 1/4 times that were at least ONE SECOND quicker, i'll take it....
your comment is akin to a smart azz saying a roots blower COSTS like 200hp to turn the blower! NO SHEET. :lol:
.
SO the Q is,
a guy builds an engine that runs great on 93,
BUT a rip-off gas station sells 93 that is really 87!
SO how do you deal with that?
I'd switch on some water injection and avoid that station, and file a complaint with the state "weights and measures" dept.
Buy gas ahead of time and test it if its that important.............. Keep a drum at home.

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by Matt Gruber » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:56 am

Cross country trip with a drum at home. How does that help?
.
Sure it can be called a band-aid. What do you do with a cut? Bleed to death? J&J sells lots of band-aids, they don't tell people to be more careful and not get cut.
What i see is shops building only low CR engines for the street because they don't know how to deal with a tank of 87. Meanwhile turbo guys run "unthinkable" effective CR and get away with it. (with water/methanol inj)
.
.
tame a lumpy cam for the street, more street torque! see my article, archived in the waybackmachine.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130707064 ... TGRU/carb/
Great manners equals more fun.

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by David Redszus » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:43 pm

The octane ratings of pump gasoline are almost meaningless when applied to a racing engine. Two fuels with the same octane numbers can perform completely different.

When we speak of fuel octanes, we must always be very specific as to whether we mean RON, MON, index or road octane. Only the later really matters to the engine.

It is very important to look at fuel octane sensitivity and even more important- the distillation curve.

If water injection is used to tame a rogue turbo it is usually because the combustion pressure curve is improperly positioned (too early) and the engine is on the way to destruction. By delaying the combustion pressure peak, the pressure amplitude may be reduced but the engine torque could be increased.

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by Matt Gruber » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:44 am

and that shows just how effective water inj is.
I'm 100% certain the engine would fail quickly without it.
Yet there were ZERO engine failures with it(did melt the turbine when i tried 30 psi boost). I raced it 2 yrs. at Englishtown, never tried race fuel, just the local hi-test. After i made my point, i moved on, put engine into another car sans turbo and sold.
Easy to switch on (thru vacuum and throttle limit switches)
when the gas is crappy. So what does a washer pump cost? $10?
.
.
tame a lumpy cam for the street, more street torque! see my article, archived in the waybackmachine.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130707064 ... TGRU/carb/
Great manners equals more fun.

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by justahoby » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:59 pm

I was just reading a lot on toluene , and other crap in a Subaru forum.... just got to find it.. It had very in depth info..
toluene had (r+m)/2 of 114 octane
xylene was 120 something (dont remember exactly)
Acetone was 140-150 octane.
All listings of R+m pump value and other values listed
But toluene was considered the best choice due to having more BTUs than a gallon of pump gasoline.
Explained that some of the better blends use touline in their 93
Explained like 80% or so was used in F1 fuel, blended to meet the 102 r+m limit allowed or F1...
I will try to find the link as i read it yesterday
As I'm approaching 40,I still think I'm 20. What the hell is wrong with me?

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by justahoby » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:06 am

Found it.. looks close to what was previously listed on pump values above.. but they got RON, MON, and R+M)/2 of paint store stuff
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/water-meth- ... ene-2.html
As I'm approaching 40,I still think I'm 20. What the hell is wrong with me?

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by David Redszus » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:15 pm

But toluene was considered the best choice due to having more BTUs than a gallon of pump gasoline.
Toluene compared to typical pump gasoline has in increased Heat of Combustion value increase of .0039%. That is within normal data scatter.
Explained that some of the better blends use touline in their 93
ALL pump gasolines contain some amount of aromatics: toluene, xylene, ethyl benzene, and also contain about 400 other compounds.
Explained like 80% or so was used in F1 fuel, blended to meet the 102 r+m limit allowed or F1...

High concentrations of aromatics such as toluene and xylene were used by F1 because of their greater density which provided greater fuel economy per gallon ( but not by weight).

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by justahoby » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:33 am

David Redszus wrote:
But toluene was considered the best choice due to having more BTUs than a gallon of pump gasoline.
Toluene compared to typical pump gasoline has in increased Heat of Combustion value increase of .0039%. That is within normal data scatter.
Explained that some of the better blends use touline in their 93
ALL pump gasolines contain some amount of aromatics: toluene, xylene, ethyl benzene, and also contain about 400 other compounds.
Explained like 80% or so was used in F1 fuel, blended to meet the 102 r+m limit allowed or F1...

High concentrations of aromatics such as toluene and xylene were used by F1 because of their greater density which provided greater fuel economy per gallon ( but not by weight).
My bad, all gasolines do use toluene, or some other aromatic. #-o I am still trying to learn this stuff for myself, glad you got more hard facts to put out the specifics :)
As I'm approaching 40,I still think I'm 20. What the hell is wrong with me?

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by shoedoos » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:02 pm

Anybody have experience with this stuff?

http://www.race-gas.net/

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Re: Home Brew Octane Booster recipes - what have you got?

Post by Tuner » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:20 pm

shoedoos wrote:Anybody have experience with this stuff?

http://www.race-gas.net/
The active ingredient is MMT.

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