Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

I don't use it. I use Track Claw on dirt. We put it inside and outside. It keeps our edges better. On the home brew they say it does soften the tires real well but wears out pretty quick. Within 20 laps. Our tires are bias ply, not radial. good luck,

Joe

JBV-HEADS wrote:Toluene is one of the most used octane boosters out there. C16 has about 25 percent in it. Or close to that as it separated in that amount when tested. But the other things don't help matters and like I said, it is a very good tire softner for dirt track tires. Good luck,
Joe

How does one go about separating toluene from the rest of the fuel? What test would indicate the percentage of toluene?

It came out in an alcohol/water filter as I was separating a nitropropane/ethanol additive from C16. The toluene goes to ethanol to nitropropane to methanol to water leaving hydrocarbons. Good luck,

Joe

David -

I use gas chromatography to determine the fuel composition, including the percentage of toluene. I'm sure somebody will say I'm cracking walnuts with a 50 ton press, but used gas chromatographs are cheap (<$500) and very accurate. Fuel quality is important enough to me that I want to know what I'm burning. If you want more detailed information, I'm glad to share with everybody, but I'm not going to type it all unless somebody actually wants it.

There are ASTM standards for fuel composition testing.

Trn,

that sounds interesting. Can it break apart the different nitroparaphins? Or be accurate at breaking apart the different alcohols? Thanks,

Joe

Alcohols are easy, use a polar column and split mode injection, and you can separate and quantify all alcohols you'd care about.

My memory of nitroparaffin analysis is a bit dim, but I think they might be thermally labile. I'd try a Restek micropacked column and on column injection to start. Helium carrier gas.

Flame Ionization Detector, temperature programmed. Lots of examples at restek.com

I use a Varian 3400 with the built in integrator, I don't need any high performance data analysis.

Gas chromatography is a very powerful tool. I've been trying to learn more about combustion by doing exhaust gas analysis, but I'm time and money limited in everything I do.

TRN,

"I use gas chromatography to determine the fuel composition, including the percentage of toluene. I'm sure somebody will say I'm cracking walnuts with a 50 ton press, but used gas chromatographs are cheap (<$500) and very accurate."

Back in the early 2000's, I was put in charge of selling the obsolete BAR-90 Emissions Inspection Machines in the St. Louis Ozone Nonattainment Area and they went cheap, most like less than $400 and it was funny b/c the handheld VIN bar-code reader was worth like $700 off them alone..

so I know what you mean.

St. Louis went to the centralized I/M 240 Dyno Smog checking is why the switch. And now we are at OBD-II decentralized smog checking.

pdq67

TRN wrote:David -

I use gas chromatography to determine the fuel composition, including the percentage of toluene. I'm sure somebody will say I'm cracking walnuts with a 50 ton press, but used gas chromatographs are cheap (<$500) and very accurate. Fuel quality is important enough to me that I want to know what I'm burning. If you want more detailed information, I'm glad to share with everybody, but I'm not going to type it all unless somebody actually wants it.

There are ASTM standards for fuel composition testing.

TRN
I fully concur with your assesment of the benefit of a GC. That is why I have my own GC in addition to running DHAs at outside labs for those substances for which I do not have the appropriate columns. We have been involved in fuel blending and testing for the last 20 years; it remains one of the last remaining dark and mysterious frontiers.

It often comes as a very large surprise to some to learn there are four to five hundred substances in ordinary pump gasoline and they are not the same week to week.

JBV-HEADS wrote:Trn,

that sounds interesting. Can it break apart the different nitroparaphins? Or be accurate at breaking apart the different alcohols? Thanks,

Joe

Which nitroparaffins are you interested in? There are only a few that are worthwhile as a racing fuel component.

David,

I'm only interested in Nitromethane and Nitropropane. Nitroethane has no value in racing. I'm waiting for a friend to come off vacation that does smog work and has these machines in his shop. CA has tons of the machines and they keep making those guys update constantly. On alcohol they weren't able to differentiate between ethanol and methanol. Maybe my friend can, or maybe he can give me the straight scoop on the abilities of the machines. My interest is in what can be held together and in what quantities until they phase separate or just separate period. I'm hoping the youngest gets into CIT. I'd love a back door into the Guggenhiem Aeronautical Laboratory Library. She has an interview but they only take 150 each year. I can dream. Good luck,

Joe

He, He!!

Vehicular fuels testing... Right, each oil field well feed stock varies all over the map, therefore the composition difference.

EPA is fast going after coal-fired powerplant emissions data, then CONTROL, as I type!

Can you see your home's electric bill going up in the near future?

And I'm in to this up to my neck at work.

pdq67

I'm sure somebody will say I'm cracking walnuts with a 50 ton press, but used gas chromatographs are cheap (<$500) and very accurate.

You may feel you are cracking walnuts with a 50 ton press but most folks are trying to eat walnuts with the shells intact.

Fuel quality is important enough to me that I want to know what I'm burning.

Detailed information regarding the composition and consistency of fuels is very hard to obtain. Most frequently, the fuel suppliers do not have access to the data and so racer folk lore persists.

You could provide a wealth of information to racers by determining the component composition of various fuels. From that data a fuel distillation curve could be determined as well as fuel stoichiometric values. Now racers would have really useful fuel data.

If you want more detailed information, I'm glad to share with everybody, but I'm not going to type it all unless somebody actually wants it.

What ever information you might publish, there will only be a very small percentage of folks who will attempt to make use of the data. Please do not expect more; you'll avoid disappointment. But for the select few that use correct fuel data, their successes will speak for themselves and you will have contributed something of real value and not more racing bullshiit.

Go for it.

Joe @ JBV heads - I for one would be very interested in any data that you might want to share. pheyden@ieee.org

Thanks in advance - Paul

My Step-dad was a Louisiana man. He told me that during the '20s and '30s when they were working around the oilfields, they would collect some casing head gas at night and add it to their tanks. He said it ran great, but if you added very much or did it for too long, it would burn a hole in your pistons. So they used it sparingly unless they had a load of 'shine headed to Texas or Mississippi and needed the extra power to outrun the High Sheriff down in Plaquemines Parish. Seems the Sheriff had arrangements with certain bootleggers and certain other sheriffs and if he got ahold of anyone cutting in on their territory...... Well, they weren't likely to be heard of again in those days.

Best regards,

Harry

Just ordered a case of the Kemco 130 supreme always wondered if X amount of tolulene to X gals gas was worthwhile. Maybe their label will spill the contents on it.