college

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college

Post by jed » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:07 am

I have a 18 year old heading of to college.

Any thoughts on haveing a large debt for education in this global economy and job market?

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Re: college

Post by billet » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:51 pm

Biggest thing I see, is kids go to a major state college for the experience and the partying. They may end up with some degree and then come back and go to work for some popular employment place around where they grew up (around here that would be aircraft manufacturing). They have 60,000.00+ worth of debt and take a job that had nothing to do with going to college, now they lost out on 4 years of wages and just racked up debt. Other kid's that went straight to work, have no debt and 4 years of pay raises and seniority over those that just partied at college. Most of the fore mentioned kid's had their parents pay for college, which contributes towards this happening.

To me make sure you are spending money on an education that will actually get you a better or higher paying position/job or you will be like the above situation.

Not sure about most employers, but I seen people with really good degrees from top colleges that couldn't turn that into a practical application of a job and other that didn't finish high school have more common sense and practical job skills then the degree holders. I don't put much weight in a degree my self, but that obviously depends on the job.

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Re: college

Post by Speedbump » Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:54 am

JMO, but most community colleges offer the first two years of required's and pre's for a lot lower price. Many have "conjoined" programs with major universities for the last two/three years. Just make sure the C.C. is a good one and some are not so much. Also look for grants and scholorships, they don't have to be repaid. Some amount of loan is OK, but make sure your "student" knows that at least part time employment is a requirement. It gives them some ownership in thier own education. Education is never a bad deal, even in a bad economy.
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Re: college

Post by JoePorting » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:59 am

College degree doesn't mean much anymore. Just means you're good at listening to lectures, taking pop quizes, and passing a final. The only exception is if you're focused on a professional career as a lawyer or doctor. But even those professions are having a hard time. I'd just tell them to focus in on whatever they are into and developing it from there. I have a friend who quite high school so that he could work at Burger King. We all laughed at him and thought he was stupid. But by the time he was 25, he was a district manager for Burger King. By the time he was 30, he was buying up underperforming Burger Kings and turning them around. By the time he was 40, he was retired with around 40 Burger Kings to his name not to mention a few TGIF's and other restaurants. Now he's the one laughing with about $20 million in the bank!!! :cry:
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Re: college

Post by dfree383 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:51 am

Depends on what the kid wants to do for a living...... If they want to be a Doctor... No choice but to go to School and pay for the education.... If they want to be a Business owner..... There are cheaper was and classes + experiance people to help.. Not at all a requirement to go to school......

But IMO if they are looking a some weird liberal arts degree, dancing or basket weaving 101, I'd make them to pay for it by working there way thru school and avoid the loans as all cost because the potential payback on the investment is usually a long shot or pretty poor.

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Re: college

Post by TRN » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:04 pm

First, all the negative comments on here about the worth of college education are just flat wrong, and probably made by people who haven't gone.

Second, I suggest you quit boxing yourself in with assumptions. I strongly discourage borrowing money for college. Buy what you can, as you can afford it. Tell the young'un to get a job, that will provide the flexibility to go to college. Lots of jobs as security guard, help desk, janitorial, fast food, etc. that are swing or grave shift. I worked at an automotive shop, doing R & R's, for minimum wage. They found plenty for me to do, and I was doing all their cylinder head work by the time I graduated. Sure it took me 5 and a half years, but so what? I got more education, and no loan. I highly recommend a community college to start. See if the college has a work program. There's a guy from this area that lived in a tent so he could go to college.

I wish you and your child the best.

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Re: college

Post by af2 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:22 pm

Funny this subject came up....

Sunday I was making a deposit at the bank ATM and ran into a friend I hadn't seen for a while that is a self employed physical therapist and he asked how my sons are doing.
I told him how my oldest has been employed 5 years at our power company making way more than I ever have. He went to a welding college for 9 months 6 days a week, earned 39 credits and has 6 different certifications for welding.
My youngest is enrolled in a Lineman school and will start in January and will be able to go anywhere for work after graduation.

He flat told me I and my wife made good choices because he has had many PT's come and go wanting to make the extra$$$ since they went to school for 4 years. His point is they are not up to par because of no hands on training IE trade school so why should they make what I make and sometimes want more.

Good point!
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Re: college

Post by JoePorting » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:56 am

I have a BA in Economics, Cal State University (CSU) Chico 1988, a BS in Accounting CSULA 1992, and an MBA from Drake University, Des Moines, IA 1996. I was surprised by how little people cared about education during many of my interviews over the past 10 years. They all never mentioned anything I accomplished during my academic career. They just wanted to know what I could do NOW. After working on 10 years of dead-end corp jobs, I finally decided to do something on my own. Can't say it's paying off now, but I hope so in the near future. And if it doesn't payoff at any time, at least I can say I did what I wanted to do.

So again, I would say education is overrated. Furthermore, I believe the research in education is pushed by people in the education community designed to stimulate the demand in education, and therefore, stimulate their paychecks. In other words, education is an industry just like tobacco, tires, and t-shirts.

But that's not to suggest that I think "education" is a waste. Rather that you don't need to go to a University to be educated. You just need to be involved in something that peaks your interest. When you're interested in a subject, you will educate yourself (look at Smokey Yunick). Self education is worth ten times what you can learn in a classroom. It's not a coincidence that the richest people in industry were college dropouts (Bill Gates and Steve Jobs). They knew that their Harvard education was a waste of time and were better off educating themselves.
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Re: college

Post by RednGold86Z » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:03 am

"Engineers" need a BS at minimum to get into the door anywhere.
A highschool "B" student shouldn't bother with the difficult engineering programs. And, if they're smart, but don't have "the knack" - they'll be brushed aside quickly (or promoted to managers ;-).
Make your kid take the SAT and ACT, and that'll give you a better idea as to how intelligent he/she is. If below ~26/1200 or so... liberal arts it is. 33/1400 will get you in to a lot of colleges with a lot of scholarship money.
A liberal arts degree is only a degree of being able to finish college, meaning you didn't give up - some companies want at least someone who tries. But, let's be real - a liberal arts degree isn't worth a whole lot. A real job has to be the focus when considering college.
College is worth it, if the kid wants to go, and is realistic about what they're good at.

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Re: college

Post by BigBlocksOnTop » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:49 am

I think the more you can do the better. I'm a hands on guy and I did go to college....for three weeks! It was a community college and at that time I had a hot running Mustang with a four speed. Leaving Germanna and heading back to Fredericksburg was a nice straighaway and I could not wait till class was over so I could ''runner through the gear box''!I have been with an electrical power generating facility for 31 yrs. Know how to weld, do machining, electrical work, mechanical...kind of a jack of all trades. Got a small lathe and mill and make barrels and chokes for competation card shooting (turkey shoots) and other metal projects that come up. Make good money doing so.I know how to build homes, decks, garages, etc. I feel I'm a wealthy person with what I can do.
A lot of kids now a days graduate from college with out a clue on what they want to do. I think in the last 25 yrs. or so the push for a college education has been over rated. You need to be hands on and be able to do many things and never be afraid of work.The thing about getting a good education and going into a good job, I have seen very little of. But then again I did not go the college route.
I believe that college is a good thing but some are not ''cut out for it''.

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Re: college

Post by revolutionary » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:07 pm

Look at the general statistics for lifetime earners with and without a degree.

I f'd around and wasted the first few years of college and could have saved a bundle by doing community college first while deciding what I wanted to do. That being said, there is a lot of life learning that goes on in those first few years in college that I wouldn't have gotten if I just got a job framing houses with my brother or being a plumbers apprentice. It was worth the $$ for me. There are a lot of 'decent' jobs you can get without a degree but the fact remains that degree holders generally earn more. Also, as was mentioned, there are a lot of careers that require a degree. Just have your kid look at the ten, twenty or fifty highest paying jobs out there. And also ask what they want out of life.
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Re: college

Post by autogear » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:46 pm

I'm 30.

Started out going to school to be a chef; got hurt (not on the job) and had to go back to school. Part of the college experience is learning to be self motivated and self aware.

The SAT is very out dated, and several colleges don't take much stock in it. The best thing the SAT evaluates is the ability to study for and manipulate the SAT. Additionally, the SAT is no longer the Scholastic Aptitude Test because it doesn't offer a real world representation of the persons 'scholastic' ability.

When I had to go back to school; I had to take a 'job assessment'. Essentially, you find out careers you're interested and cross that to careers you have a strong skill set for. Most community Colleges or Adult Education schools can provide these services. This I think is way way more important than SATs early on. Find something the person enjoys, that they can excel at and groom them for it. I believe we'd find more engineers, and other technically oriented people if we didn't throw them to the wolves, and let them accrue MASSIVE personal debt (along with taking up Government funds).

I went to college to get my BA in History; the college I went to was the wrong one for me, I dropped out and had 40 grand in debt not to mention the problem of applying for jobs in front of some Liberal Arts weenie and having them give me the evil eye because I dropped out of college.

Find something that makes them happy, and comfortably well off. Take into account it needs to be a job they can do into their 70s these days; and that things like insurance and retirement can be more important than starting wage.

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Re: college

Post by Magnum9987 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:25 pm

I'm 18, and a Junior in High School. Not just any high school, mind you, but a tech school, so in my past three years I've had alot of hands on experience with some really experienced teachers, so I know I can work with my hands. Now, thinking back to three years ago, when I was offered the choice of this or a regular school, I knew immediately that getting into a trade I had a passion for would immediately put me ahead of my friends who scoffed when I told them I wanted to go to a tech school. And now I realize that having a passion for something and then getting to know the work involved, will get you places. I've worked my ass off all year, and I have been rewarded with a scholarship to a great local school. My only hope is to work harder and to get scholarships for schools I truly want to go to.

All I can say is, don't waste your kids time (and your money) on an education that for alot of people in the US, ends up being useless. Most companies want to know if their employees can type, use power point and excel, rather than if they have a degree. If your kid has a passion for anything, tell them to focus on that, and do their best to get proficient at it. And then they don't just have jobs, like alot of people do, but a career.
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Re: college

Post by Engguy » Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:37 pm

This one is easy.
How many folks are going to college? How many graduate with say a bachelor's degree in what ever?
In other words there are tons of them, all that nice competition for those supposed high paying cushy jobs, makes all that time spent almost worthless unless you are a 4.0 student and top of the game.
Saying nothing about the costs and lost wages etc. So if the student thinks he or she is going to find an easy high paying job think again. I know lots of college grads doing the same type of job they could have got without the degree. So if its a $15.00 /hour job that requires a bachelor's degree, or a $30.00 /hour cnc job at Boeing that just needs some experience which would be the better deal?
I would like to know how many highly educated folks are out there right now in the labor force doing such jobs like hamburger flippers, janitors, pick and shovel operators etc?

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Re: college

Post by Monkeywrench » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:26 pm

I went to a very hard engineering school. I failed out in my 4th of 5 year and amassed $30k in debt. I was also miserable those four years. Fortunately, my program had a co-op program, so I accumulated 18 months of very valuable work experience in the environmental engineering field (it was real work too, not some internship). I took a year off and took a few courses in community college. Started at a different school as an environmental science major and loving it. I'm getting A's and high B's and am doing independent research. I hope to either go to graduate school right out or join the Navy or NOAA and go that route for post secondary education. My interest is in hydrology, which is a bread and butter type job and is expected to grow 18% over the next ten years. Not bad.

Really the crux of it is your kid needs to know what they want to do. Like has beens stated here, self education is everything. I struggled in engineering school early on and was unhappy. Instead of being smart about it, I tried to stick it out. If your kid hates where he is and what he does, he won't have the heart he needs to get through a program.

A BS is always better than a BA.

Almost any degree with a math type background will always pay more than one literature based.

Skills are important. In my field, having work and research experience is a huge plus as is having GIS and remote sensing backgrounds. Using excel and SAS (statistics program) are also important as well.

Hope that helps some.
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