Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

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Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by Kevin Johnson » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:54 pm


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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by justahoby » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:17 am

Maybe we need to go back to rods and cables to a throttle valve.
I don't see how a foot pedal switch/sensor makes the CD player , AC, hands free phone ect or any other creature comfort any different.
I don't see how half the garbage they intigrate should not be on stand alone systems... I dunno.. Government regulations? Automakers greed to make these integrated POS we drive?

Reminds me of a friend of mine that had an SRT 10 pick up.. It would stall in traffic if he didn't take it in for "software" updates :roll:
Speaking of which some screen in my wife's ford edge said Microsoft update needed in their sync system .. For the radio.
Maybe I ought to spill a soda on the dash and see if I end up at 140 mph helpless...
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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by MDT » Thu May 01, 2014 6:47 pm

They is Just a bunch of crap... NASA checked the system. .... And came up that the system Is not flawed.... People should learn to take responsibility for their actions
You can fix broke...... But you cant fix stupid
Never Under Estimate the Power of Stupidity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xTl5cytNEw

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by Kevin Johnson » Thu May 01, 2014 7:30 pm

MDT wrote:They is Just a bunch of crap... NASA checked the system. .... And came up that the system Is not flawed.... People should learn to take responsibility for their actions
A bit further down in the discussion the subject of aerospace software being free of bugs was discussed. One poster referenced these from Wikipedia; NASA is well represented.
Space exploration[edit]

A booster went off course during launch, resulting in the destruction of NASA Mariner 1. This was the result of the failure of a transcriber to notice an overbar in a written specification for the guidance program, resulting in the coding of an incorrect formula in its FORTRAN software. (July 22, 1962).[1] Note that the initial reporting of the cause of this bug was incorrect.[2]

The Russian Space Research Institute's Phobos 1 (Phobos program) deactivated its attitude thrusters and could no longer properly orient its solar arrays or communicate with Earth, eventually depleting its batteries. (September 10, 1988).[3]

The European Space Agency's Ariane 5 Flight 501 was destroyed 40 seconds after takeoff (June 4, 1996). The US$1 billion prototype rocket self-destructed due to a bug in the on-board guidance software.[4]

The European Space Agency's CryoSat-1 satellite was lost in a launch failure in 2005 due to a missing shutdown command in the flight control system of its Rokot carrier rocket.[5]

NASA Mars Polar Lander was destroyed because its flight software mistook vibrations due to atmospheric turbulence for evidence that the vehicle had landed and shut off the engines 40 meters from the Martian surface (December 3, 1999).[6] Its sister spacecraft Mars Climate Orbiter was also destroyed, due to software on the ground generating commands in pound-force (lbf), while the orbiter expected newtons (N).

A mis-sent command from Earth caused the software of the NASA Mars Global Surveyor to incorrectly assume that a motor had failed, causing it to point one of its batteries at the sun. This caused the battery to overheat (November 2, 2006).[7][8]

NASA's Spirit rover became unresponsive on January 21, 2004, a few weeks after landing on Mars. Engineers found that too many files had accumulated in the rover's flash memory. It was restored to working condition after deleting unnecessary files.[9]

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by benno318 » Fri May 09, 2014 6:57 pm

i can say that we have had experience of this in australia - where it is not supposed to happen mind you.

bear with me a little: my grandfather had a 2007 corolla automatic from new, he was the typical old bloke with floor mats, blankets on seats, etc - people would love to buy his cars whenever he updated cause they were like new, inside, outside, and mechanically. anyway, he passed away and the car went to my mother so she could drive her mother around. one thing the family noticed when organising his things after he died, was that the drivers floor had no floor mat - it was in the boot. i will get back to this.

so my mum was driving this car for a while, one day she said it accelerated when she was intending to slow down, we all accused her of imagining it or accidentally touching the accelerator - her prior car and all others prior to this were manual transmissions so she is not the type to left foot brake etc.
anyway this happened several times, and one day it nearly caused her to run up behind another car, this time really scared her so she called the auto club and had it towed to the toyota dealer.

this is where it gets interesting - the way she was treated at the dealers indicated to me that this HAD happened before, and they had almost a drill-like routine of inspections before the car had even been taken off the tilt tray! they opened the door and checked the floor for a floor mat. they found one of course, it was not genuine and it was in place on the floor but with persuasion they moved it under the accelerator pedal and then blame the mat for getting caught in the throttle even though the mat was secure prior to that. and the way they did that well it would prevent the throttle from being opened fully, not cause it to stick open.

so basically my mother left the place feeling very patronised, they did not want any part of any inspections or warranty, just blamed non genuine floor mats, so we decided to get rid of the car and found a car with a cable throttle for her peace of mind.

back to the mat in the boot - we came up with a theory that pop had encountered a problem with the car accelerating unintentionally, and driven to a dealer, to be told the mat was the cause, which we can see as the only reason it would have been in the boot - trust me this man would have been eaten up inside having the soles of his shoes on virgin carpet with no mat!!

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by Kevin Johnson » Fri May 09, 2014 8:58 pm

MDT wrote:They is Just a bunch of crap... NASA checked the system. .... And came up that the system Is not flawed.... People should learn to take responsibility for their actions
If you go to the article and follow the links you can access the analysis performed.

http://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/B ... RUBBED.pdf

I think you will find that the team of engineers investigating the issue not only took NASA's review into account but went further and found items that NASA missed.

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by MDT » Sat May 10, 2014 9:32 am

So...... if it is a true condition.... why has the Occurances. .... almost ceased....By the way ALL of the manufacturers have UA complaints
You can fix broke...... But you cant fix stupid
Never Under Estimate the Power of Stupidity
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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by Kevin Johnson » Sat May 10, 2014 12:51 pm

MDT wrote:So...... if it is a true condition.... why has the Occurances. .... almost ceased....By the way ALL of the manufacturers have UA complaints
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-1 ... probe.html

I am not sure what to say.

And, yes, UA has many known and many possible causes.

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by MDT » Sat May 10, 2014 8:11 pm

It is so funny to look at a vehicle incident recorder and compare it to what the operator says what happened. ... ie "I was driving 60 and the air bag went off then I chit the guard rail cause I could not see the road" when in actuality he was going 87 and lost control and hit the guard rail and the air bag saved his life
You can fix broke...... But you cant fix stupid
Never Under Estimate the Power of Stupidity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xTl5cytNEw

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by justahoby » Sun May 11, 2014 1:16 am

MDT wrote:It is so funny to look at a vehicle incident recorder and compare it to what the operator says what happened. ... ie "I was driving 60 and the air bag went off then I chit the guard rail cause I could not see the road" when in actuality he was going 87 and lost control and hit the guard rail and the air bag saved his life
One person told his insurance company " I was just driving down the road as the telephone pole approached me"
As I'm approaching 40,I still think I'm 20. What the hell is wrong with me?

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by Kevin Johnson » Sun May 11, 2014 6:44 am

Aside from the software discussion...

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2014/March/14-ag-286.html wrote:The Sticky Pedal Problem



What is more misleading, at the same time it was assuring the public that the “root cause” of unintended acceleration had been “addressed” by the 2009 eight-model floor-mat entrapment recall, TOYOTA was hiding from NHTSA a second cause of unintended acceleration in its vehicles: the sticky pedal. Sticky pedal, a phenomenon affecting pedals manufactured by a U.S. company (“A-Pedal Company”) and installed in many Toyota brand vehicles in North America as well as Europe, resulted from the use of a plastic material inside the pedals that could cause the accelerator pedal to become mechanically stuck in a partially depressed position. The pedals incorporating this plastic were installed in, among other models, the Camry, the Matrix, the Corolla, and the Avalon sold in the United States.



The sticky pedal problem surfaced in Europe in 2008. There, reports reflected instances of “uncontrolled acceleration” and unintended acceleration to “maximum RPM,” and customer concern that the condition was “extremely dangerous.”



In early 2009, TOYOTA circulated to European Toyota distributors information about the sticky pedal problem and instructions for addressing the problem if it presented itself in a customer’s vehicle. These instructions identified the issue as “Sudden RPM increase/vehicle acceleration due to accelerator pedal sticking,” and stated that should a customer complain of pedal sticking, the pedal should be replaced with pedals manufactured by a company other than A-Pedal Company. Contemporaneous internal TOYOTA documents described the sticky pedal problem as a “defect” that was “mportant in terms of safety because of the possibility of accidents.”



TOYOTA did not then inform its U.S. regulators of the sticky pedal problem or conduct a recall. Instead, beginning in the spring of 2009, TOYOTA quietly directed A-Pedal Company to change the pedals in new productions of affected models in Europe, and to plan for the same design changes to be rolled out in the United States (where the same problematic pedals were being used) beginning in the fall of 2009. The design change was to substitute the plastic used in the affected pedal models with another material and to change the length of the friction lever in the pedal.



Meanwhile, the sticky pedal problem was manifesting itself in U.S. vehicles. On or about the same day the San Diego floor-mat entrapment accident occurred, staff at a U.S. TOYOTA subsidiary in California sent a memorandum to staff at TOYOTA in Japan identifying as “critical” an “unintended acceleration” issue separate and apart from floor-mat entrapment that had been identified in an accelerator pedal of a Toyota Matrix vehicle in Arizona. The problem identified, and then reproduced during testing of the pedal on Sept. 17, 2009, was the sticky pedal problem. Also in August, the sticky pedal problem cropped up in a U.S. Camry.



On Sept. 9, 2009, an employee of a U.S. TOYOTA subsidiary who was concerned about the sticky pedal problem in the United States and believed that TOYOTA should address the problem prepared a “Market Impact Summary” listing (in addition to the August 2009 Matrix and Camry) 39 warranty cases that he believed involved potential manifestations of the sticky pedal problem. This document, which was circulated to TOYOTA engineers and, later, to staff in charge of recall decisions in Japan, designated the sticky pedal problem as priority level “A,” the highest level.



By no later than September 2009, TOYOTA recognized internally that the sticky pedal problem posed a risk of a type of unintended acceleration – or “overrun,” as Toyota sometimes called it – in many of its U.S. vehicles. A September 2009 presentation made by a manager at a U.S. TOYOTA subsidiary to TOYOTA executives gave a “current summary of O/R [overrun] types in NA [North American] market” that listed the three confirmed types as: “mat interference” (i.e., floor-mat entrapment), “material issue” (described as “pedal stuck and . . . pedal slow return/deformed”) and “simultaneous pedal press” by the consumer. The presentation further listed the models affected by the “material issue” as including “Camry, Corolla, Matrix, Avalon.”



Hiding Sticky Pedal from NHTSA and the Public



As noted, TOYOTA had by this time developed internal plans to implement design changes for all A-Pedal-Company-manufactured pedals in U.S. Toyota models to address, on a going-forward basis, the still-undisclosed sticky pedal problem that had already been resolved for new vehicles in Europe. On Oct. 5, 2009, TOYOTA engineers issued to A-Pedal Company the first of the design change instructions intended to prevent sticky pedal in the U.S. market. This was described internally as an “urgent” measure to be implemented on an “express” basis, as a “major” change – meaning that the part number of the subject pedal was to change, and that all inventory units with the old pedal number should be scrapped.



On Oct. 21, 2009, however, in the wake of the San Diego floor-mat entrapment accident, and in the midst of TOYOTA’s discussions with NHTSA about its eight-model entrapment recall, engineers at TOYOTA and the leadership of TOYOTA’s recall decision group decided to cancel the design change instruction that had already been issued and to suspend all remaining design changes planned for A-Pedal Company pedals in U.S. models. U.S. TOYOTA subsidiary employees who had been preparing for implementation of the changes were instructed, orally, to alert the manufacturing plants of the cancellation. They were also instructed not to put anything about the cancellation in writing. A-Pedal Company itself would receive no written cancellation at this time; instead, contrary to TOYOTA’s own standard procedures, the cancellation was to be effected without a paper trail.



TOYOTA decided to suspend the pedal design changes in the United States, and to avoid memorializing that suspension, in order to prevent NHTSA from learning about the sticky pedal problem.



In early November 2009, TOYOTA and the leadership of a U.S. TOYOTA subsidiary became aware of three instances of sticky pedal in U.S. Corollas. Shortly thereafter, the leadership of the recall decision group within TOYOTA discussed a plan to finally disclose the sticky pedal problem to NHTSA. The recall decision group was aware at this time not only of the problems in the three Corollas in the United States but also of the problems that had surfaced in a Matrix and a Camry in August 2009 and been reproduced through testing in September 2009. The group was also familiar with the sticky pedal problem in Europe, the design changes that had been implemented there, and the cancellation and suspension of similar planned design changes in the United States. Knowing all of this, the group’s leadership decided that (a) it would not disclose the September 2009 Market Impact Summary to NHTSA; (b) if any disclosure were to be made to NHTSA, it would be limited to a disclosure that there were some reports of unintended acceleration apparently unrelated to floor-mat entrapment; and (c) NHTSA should be told that TOYOTA had made no findings with respect to the sticky pedal problem reflected in the reports concerning the three U.S. Corollas, and that the investigation of the problem had just begun.



On Nov. 17, 2009, before TOYOTA had negotiated with NHTSA a final set of remedies for the eight models encompassed by the floor-mat entrapment recall, TOYOTA informed NHTSA of the three Corolla reports and several other reports of unintended acceleration in Toyota model vehicles equipped with pedals manufactured by A‑Pedal Company. In TOYOTA’s disclosure to NHTSA, TOYOTA did not reveal its understanding of the sticky pedal problem as a type of unintended acceleration, nor did it reveal the problem’s manifestation and the subsequent design changes in Europe, the planned, cancelled, and suspended design changes in the United States, the August 2009 Camry and Matrix vehicles that had suffered sticky pedal, or the September 2009 Market Impact Summary.

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by Truckedup » Sun May 11, 2014 7:42 am

Similar but not exactly the same, reliable witness to the story. Woman pulls out onto a busy highway with a late model Chevy PU truck and floors the accelerator to get up to speed.When she eases up at 60 mph the truck continues to accelerate at full throttle. A cool head prevails and she throws the truck neutral, describing the engine sound made by the RPM limiter, then kills the ignition and pulls to a stop on shoulder. The vehicle is towed to the dealer who replaces an faulty electronic throttle pedal.
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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by W. Tripp » Wed May 21, 2014 2:24 pm

Interesting that ride-by-wire throttle designs on bikes do not seem to have this issue.


2010 article http://www.sportrider.com/sportbikes/st ... celeration

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by MDT » Wed May 21, 2014 7:42 pm

Yes bikes....... Don't have the same 2 pedals an inch from one another
You can fix broke...... But you cant fix stupid
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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by Barry_R » Fri May 30, 2014 10:13 pm

It would be my luck...
To be in the McD's drive thru line with a vintage Pinto in front of me and a Toyota (or old Audi) behind me.
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