Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

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rancherort
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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by rancherort » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:54 pm

I believe car and driver or motor trend did a study on vehicles with stuck accelerators. They wanted to find out if a vehicle were to suddenly have its accelerator stuck at wide open throttle could the driver successfully stop the vehicle with the brakes. What they found was that every vehicle tested could be stopped using the brakes even though the engine was running at full throttle. They're testing proved that any vehicles brakes are more powerful than its engine. I'm sorry some people lost their lives because they couldn't step on the brake pedal or shut off the ignition or put the car in neutral.

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by justahoby » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:59 pm

rancherort wrote:I believe car and driver or motor trend did a study on vehicles with stuck accelerators. They wanted to find out if a vehicle were to suddenly have its accelerator stuck at wide open throttle could the driver successfully stop the vehicle with the brakes. What they found was that every vehicle tested could be stopped using the brakes even though the engine was running at full throttle. They're testing proved that any vehicles brakes are more powerful than its engine. I'm sorry some people lost their lives because they couldn't step on the brake pedal or shut off the ignition or put the car in neutral.
So if you can do posted 75 mph in texas in a Prius , noted your at 80 and climbing, burning your brakes with a curve ahead, would you make it? Or come over a hill and depend on the legal safe 75mph speed limit and see a truck with a wide load doing 40, how does that calculate at that speed down hill with the computer opening your throttle?
If you did stop, how would the control be in that shoe box downhill?
I can name a few location in my area where this could happen... You may be able to stop, but a wicked long distance in nice straight flat conditions, most of these people end up in screwed up situations
As I'm approaching 40,I still think I'm 20. What the hell is wrong with me?

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by Truckedup » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:51 am

Modern vehicles have all sorts of driving aid devices that makes less skill required to be behind the wheel. How many drivers are trained and practice emergency procedures.......Having a stuck accelerator pedal on car hot rodded car as young men we may be quite familiar with the occasional stuck accelerator. I know people who have never used the parking brake or where it's located.....
Naked frame LSR bikes, dressed in animal hides clinging to machines propelled by fire...

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by justahoby » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:35 pm

Truckedup wrote:Modern vehicles have all sorts of driving aid devices that makes less skill required to be behind the wheel. How many drivers are trained and practice emergency procedures...
I agree, ABS works great, but people on you ass in a rain storm on the interstate forget with weight/ friction/ speed only a certain stopping distance is possible ( or they never learned what a skid is), it just is designed not to lock up, doesnt make magically shorter stopping distance. It has saved some lives I am sure so dont get me wrong, but I agree it can not cover every emergency.

More is the modern trend of SUVs , they roll over, dangerous, ect. This is true, but what people fail to realize, the acronym "SUV" is quite new, but the design purpose/ idea has existed before ww2 jeeps. People were more careful with drum brakes, slower speeds, paying attention. I remember in the 80s people suggested it was safer to leave the radio off while driving."Dont talk to me i am driving". People would pass a car cussing a the person busy lighting a cigarette.I remember those days. That crap is not near as bad as talking to your door pillar busy listening to the drama through your bluetooth radio installed on cars( i am very guilty myself).

In the end we as a society have shifted to blaming others, or design, and not taking responsibility for actions .. Remember the Firestone lawsuits? At that time they pulled that name out of a hat, but almost all tire manufacturers seemed to have defects. How many of them poeple flew down their local interstate till their car shutoff? We will never know when they bought the cheapest low speed tire on sale they could run like mad.
I suspect some people will jump on the bandwagon magnifying the issue at hand here too.
As I'm approaching 40,I still think I'm 20. What the hell is wrong with me?

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by Kevin Johnson » Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:57 am

rancherort wrote:I believe car and driver or motor trend did a study on vehicles with stuck accelerators. They wanted to find out if a vehicle were to suddenly have its accelerator stuck at wide open throttle could the driver successfully stop the vehicle with the brakes. What they found was that every vehicle tested could be stopped using the brakes even though the engine was running at full throttle. They're testing proved that any vehicles brakes are more powerful than its engine. I'm sorry some people lost their lives because they couldn't step on the brake pedal or shut off the ignition or put the car in neutral.
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4820835&cid=46308181 wrote:However, in almost all cars, when not going down a steep hill, the brakes are actually more powerful than the acceleration. Just do not let off the brakes once you get the car slowed down and you think things are under control -- then the brakes overheat and you have a stuck accelerator combined with no brakes, and that has killed at least one driver already.
Yes, you might have one or two opportunities to stop a runaway with your brakes before they overheat. That is if you have the presence of mind to realize that your car is a runaway contrary to many opinions. I would also think that in many situations slamming on the brakes to a dead stop would guarantee death by being rear-ended in high speed traffic. Maybe that has occurred (?).

I was introduced to hours-long brake fade in my '66 Plymouth Valiant on a logging road that I thought was a shortcut. #-o First thing I did when I got home was to have a set of custom Kevlar linings made.

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Re: Toyota-vehicles unintended acceleration

Post by Kevin Johnson » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:10 am

justahoby wrote:I suspect some people will jump on the bandwagon magnifying the issue at hand here too.
I guess my major concern is that the systems are getting so complex that we are not comprehending how they can fail. Combine this with It being easier to blame simple causes conforming to Ockam's Razor or parsimony.

Aside: With some time having passed and in light of the ignition defect at GM being demonstrated as being known internally for many years, it is enlightening to review the Firestone tire problem that was also realized early on by Ford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_ ... ontroversy

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Re: Worth reading especially if you design embedded code

Post by GLHS60 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:51 pm

That was a good read Kevin, I also read the link in the article of the court transcripts of the trial. I don't know anything about electronics but the testimony given by Mr. Barr was very enlightening.

Thanks
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