Friction Manufacturer

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Cfin
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Friction Manufacturer

Post by Cfin »

I am trying to locate a manufacturer to make me some "special" auto trans friction's.
Can anyone reccommend a maker who does trial lots or a small volume maker doing specialist applications?
Cobra

Post by Cobra »

Why?
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Post by Cfin »

I need some frictions done in kevlar....they are unavailable for the trans we are running.
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Post by Cfin »

Or perhaps, kevlar/carbon mix like they are doing some bands with at the moment.
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Post by Transman »

If you don't mind my asking, what type of application are you looking to use Kevlar in? In reality it's not a good material for the frictions. It works fine for bands in the right scenario, but why not use a normal BW, Raybestos, or Alto friction? This is presuming it's for a normal auto trans....
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Post by Cfin »

Thanks for the reply. I realise that it isn't really a recognised friction material but in the application (drag trans) and the type of trans, I think it has some qualities I need.
I have been working on/thinking about this for awhile now and without giving too much away, I have a strong, light weight 3 speed trans. It has a problem in the direct area, whilst it has plenty of "piston volume"...it has limited room both for extra frictions and /or larger diameter plates or drum. the result is very high direct wear rate.
We have plenty of pump volume/pressure and plenty of piston area however. kevlar has very high compressive strength and high heat handling capacity. Combined with several other mods that I have thought up, I thought kevlar plates would tolerate some slippage/heat and excessive compession pressure and help the "life" of this thing.
Its just my pet project at the moment
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Post by Transman »

Yes, they'll tolerate some slippage without visible damage. But if you want to go fast or consistantly the same et's it is not condusive to that, at least from what I've seen. Have you looked into the older grey 'metallic' material ala the old Ford FMX used? I've used some cut-down frictions in Glides and that material worked fine. I've been using Alto stuff in Glides pushing up to and over 1500 hp even in door cars with pretty good results. What kind of trans is this going in? Some drums give enough material to open them up and use larger diameter pistons if you can find an appropriate seal to work with the room you have. I've done a couple Glides with pistons using a smaller ID/seal to increase surface area. This allowed me to drop line pressure in a Comp Eliminator trans with reasonable life and some slight gains from reduced line pressure.
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Post by Cfin »

Its a C4. I have one manufacturer claiming a 10% increase in coefficient of friction over "paper based products". Depends which paper products you are comparing them to I guess.
I have never used kevlar material for frictions in any application but do note that they are available for some transmissions. The C4 has a very large piston area...much larger than say a glides direct....so pressure is not a problem, but the diameter if the actual frictions are much smaller....meaning due to leverage, they have to work much harder than a glides friction. Trying to grab stationary steels at 8000+rpm with such a setup and 1200hp, and things don't last too long.
I know....I know....go to a glide. I have a soft spot for these things and have been working on a self designed VB to provide much faster direct application. I could tolerate alittle slippage as that may indeed help longivity by taking the shock out of the change.
I am not familar with the "grey" material.....there is around six or eight types of friction material that is commonly available, that I know of, but most of the paper based stuffed just can't tolerate the slippage and heat that is produced.
Apart from afew weak links, the C4's are tough little buggers for their size and weight....but there isn't much aftermarket componentary available for them.
Have you tried kevlar frictions yourself? Any first hand experience would be appreciated....I may be barking up the wrong tree.
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Post by Transman »

No, I've only used it in band applications. I've had great results with conventional paper based frictions from Alto, BW and Raybestos thus far. A friend has used the old bronze frictions with some success but they're very near impossible to find.
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Post by Cobra »

Kevlar has high heat resistance and poor friction characteristics. Contact any of the mainstream racing C4 transmission shops. They will give you the information you need.
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Post by Cfin »

This is the stuff I was thinking of trying. It called Braketex P42 and is 100% kevlar fibre composite....textile reinforced.
Here is part of the blurb they sent -

Approximate Wet Friction Properties
- in automatic transmission fluid (after extended burnish)
Wear rate: 1/2 to 1/5 that of organics and paper, 1/2 to 1/3 that of sintered bronze materials
Dynamic coefficient of friction: 0.10 to 0.15 µ in the 23 - 290 W/sq. cm range (0.2 - 2.5 HP/sq. in.). Approximately 10% higher than paper, maintaining coefficient beyond the energy limits of sintered bronze
Static to dynamic ratio: 1.05 - 1.15

The hp per sq/in seems kinda low but they didn't state at what pressure this is tested at....though most appear to be rated at 1400psi or less.
We will be running at pressures of around 2600psi +.
It sounds promising and the "extended burnish" won't take too long in a C4!!!
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Post by Transman »

We will be running at pressures of around 2600psi +.
Huh?!? :?

How will you end up with 2600+ psi in an automatic trans if you don't mind my asking... or did you mean 260?
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Post by Cfin »

Thats total pressure....line pressure x piston sq/in area.
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Post by Transman »

You had me worried there for a moment, lol! :D
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