Innovate MTX-L (Digital Air/Fuel Gauge)

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BigBlocksOnTop2
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Innovate MTX-L (Digital Air/Fuel Gauge)

Post by BigBlocksOnTop2 » Mon May 26, 2014 8:33 am

I'm having problems with this device and hopefully I can find help here. It has only powered up three times and now nothing. Does anyone have experience with this meter. Its was purchased two years ago and I tried to get it to work yesterday. Are theres things junk? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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Re: Innovate MTX-L (Digital Air/Fuel Gauge)

Post by justahoby » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:29 pm

I have one and it needs reset ,but it turns on. I am hoping its not going downhill. Honestly I was never impressed with quality for price on many levels, but there are not many widebands out there to compete with them at lower cost( hence everyone says they are cheap. People may disagree but for over 200$ a piece of crap gauge attached to a $50 o2 sensor. If someone else had a wideband for 130 i would bet there price would come down.

I leave mine put up in the to tune all my projects..
Do i use ity: yes
Am I impressed?: I feel overcharged quality wise


I may check when I get home but I thought there may be a fuse in the back? like a plug?
they require a small amp fuse in the wire also( 3amp), i hope you didnt get bit :cry:
As I'm approaching 40,I still think I'm 20. What the hell is wrong with me?

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Re: Innovate MTX-L (Digital Air/Fuel Gauge)

Post by dr.mike » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:56 am

It's, actually, a pretty cut-throat market. You, usually, have to give the distributors about 40% of the MSRP to sell through channels.

So, a $200 ( retail ) part goes out the door for $120 (wholesale). Subtract, from that, the $50 sensor; and, you have $70 left over for everything else:

Electronics & assembly, housing, cables/harnesses, installation hardware, packaging, documentation, support costs, warranty allowance, advertising and overhead. Oh yeah, and stage III .... profit! :)

It would be possible to improve quality/cost ratio, greatly, if, they only made direct sales ( no 40% dealer margins )

Not say'n you should cry for them. I'm sure there are things that they could do.

But, a $130 (retail ) units goes out the door for $78 (wholesale). So, less the sensor costs of $50; that leaves $28 for everything else. I don't know if anyone could make that work.

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Re: Innovate MTX-L (Digital Air/Fuel Gauge)

Post by justahoby » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:36 pm

dr.mike wrote:
But, a $130 (retail ) units goes out the door for $78 (wholesale). So, less the sensor costs of $50; that leaves $28 for everything else. I don't know if anyone could make that work.
I don't doubt a mark up even on a 40$ narrow band.
Mark up and resale is not the issue .
I would beg for a component cost , and quality side by side with a said brand narrow band, down to manufacture.... I am pretty sure that is where I come from in that statement. I am pretty sure with as many high volume suppliers out there they dont need over 100% profit or 50% that they are beyond putting beans and rice on the table, as it is volume of other products .
I would still think the initial cost would render more quality.

Why? It is a WIDEBAND... and it sells if you have the technology.

I also said it knowing some one would go out and justify it.

Now if there is palladium in it... I would think there is an answer to initial cost of 75 dollars or whatever. And this may be the cause.
Quality? I still wouldnt say its a quality product, just somewhat affordable compared to others.
As I'm approaching 40,I still think I'm 20. What the hell is wrong with me?

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Re: Innovate MTX-L (Digital Air/Fuel Gauge)

Post by dr.mike » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:48 pm

Narrowband sensors are a multi-sourced commodity item. In bulk, they can be had for $10.

Wideband sensors are another thing. There are only two sources. Bosch and NTK. This is because both types are protected by patents.

Both manufacturers consider the aftermarket to be more of an annoyance than anything else. All they really care about is the HUGE OEM market. The result being, there is no steep discounting of wideband sensors, in the quantities used by the aftermarket. If you manage to get a $40/unit deal in thousands, you have done VERY well. And, yes, there are are platinum group metals in the wideband sensors, from both Bosch and NTK.

There are, essentially, no electronics involved in reading a Narrowband sensor. Even the 4-wire units are just two wires for the heater ( connected directly to ground and +12v ) and two signal wires ( plus and minus ). The cheapest narrowband just run the "plus" signal wire straight to an A/D pin on the CPU. That's it. The better ones wil have a $0.20 opamp in between. That's all you need. Waste not ...

The wideband controllers are MUCH more complicated. That's why most manufacturers use the Bosch CJ1xx chips to do all of the hard work. The CJ125 is the most popular. It, by itself, costs about $7/ea in lots of 1000. But, yu still need a microprocessor, etc.

The other option is to "roll your own" control system out of off-the-shelf components. This is what Innovate does. PLX does the same.
The total cost for that may be more or less than the Bosch CJ1xx solution. Development cost is MUCH MUCH more.

But, even setting development costs aside, you are looking at a minimum of $37 cost increase in building a wideband system, as opposed to a narrowband. And, in a normal market, utilizing distribution channels, that translates to about $100 - $150 increase in MSRP ( retail price ).

Taking the low side number of $100, subtracted from the $199 retail price of the MTX-L And, that means that a narrowbad equivalent should go for about $99 retail. Could be as low as $49, if the higher number is used.

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Re: Innovate MTX-L (Digital Air/Fuel Gauge)

Post by justahoby » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:13 pm

That makes sense, Thank you.
A lot of components cost brought to produce a precise product, i can see the deal there.

i keep my MXTL temporarily in my vehicles when i get a major change to help tune out a new combo. Useful when you can not coin up for fuel injection.
As I'm approaching 40,I still think I'm 20. What the hell is wrong with me?

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Re: Innovate MTX-L (Digital Air/Fuel Gauge)

Post by dr.mike » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:40 am

No problem :)

The competition for market share between Innovate, AEM and PLX ( among others ) keeps anyone from gouging on prices.

Eventually, there will be a generic source for wideband sensors. The 1st patents are probably expiring about now. I would THINK that $20 for a generic wideband sensor would be doable; the NTK design being the much simpler to produce, of the two.

Once that happens, there should be a shift in pricing.

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