The Science of Disinformation

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GARY C
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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:40 pm

paulzig wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:02 pm
David Redszus wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:26 pm

I defy you to prove the theory of creationism. And please don't use some ones observations as proof of anything.

Or prove creationism without once referring to the scientific theory of evolution, pretend it doesnt exist. Because all the 'proof' you provide is a misrepresentation of evolution, surely creationism can stand on its own.

Furthermore, which of the numerous gods is the creator?
I don't believe I have misrepresented anything and everything I have said has been backed with video evidence of a scientist in that field, so yes you are correct creation does stand on it's own but if you choose not to look at the evidence you will never know that.

There is only one true God if you must ask but that is not what the discussion is about!

Instead of moving the goal post from science to religion can we stay on science?

Here you go Paul, this is what you requested!

I would encourage anyone on either side of this discussion to watch this on line discussion on this subject, most of it is Q&A from people asking most of what has been discussed here and being answered by a scientist in scientific terms, it is more in the line of creation/ID but based on what this scientist says I don't see him in the 6000 year or a date setter of any type.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlBvmvCqhpU

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:59 pm

GARY C wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:40 pm


I don't believe I have misrepresented anything and everything I have said has been backed with video evidence of a scientist in that field, so yes you are correct creation does stand on it's own but if you choose not to look at the evidence you will never know that.

There is only one true God if you must ask but that is not what the discussion is about!

1.5 hours worth of video there.. I want a simple answer, was everything created by the christian god at once as it is now since you claim evolution is flawed? Simple YES or NO answer.

Using your logic I could assert that a technologically superior alien species engineered us and everything on this planet and the claim would be just as valid as your god doing it right?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:28 am

paulzig wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:59 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:40 pm


I don't believe I have misrepresented anything and everything I have said has been backed with video evidence of a scientist in that field, so yes you are correct creation does stand on it's own but if you choose not to look at the evidence you will never know that.

There is only one true God if you must ask but that is not what the discussion is about!

1.5 hours worth of video there.. I want a simple answer, was everything created by the christian god at once as it is now since you claim evolution is flawed? Simple YES or NO answer.

Using your logic I could assert that a technologically superior alien species engineered us and everything on this planet and the claim would be just as valid as your god doing it right?
If you want a simple answer to a complicated world I am sorry but I can't help you!

Who created the alien?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:38 am

GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:28 am

Who created the alien?
Well, their home planet in the early stages had basic chemicals, HCNO maybe more that formed basic proteins via natural reaction aided by natural catalysts, then to single celled organism and it was all downhill from there.

But, do YOU assert that the god of the christian bible created everything as it is now, unchanged, no evolution occured? I thought that was a simple enough question, I dont require any evidence, just making sure that is what you are saying.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:33 am

paulzig wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:38 am
GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:28 am

Who created the alien?
Well, their home planet in the early stages had basic chemicals, HCNO maybe more that formed basic proteins via natural reaction aided by natural catalysts, then to single celled organism and it was all downhill from there.

But, do YOU assert that the god of the christian bible created everything as it is now, unchanged, no evolution occured? I thought that was a simple enough question, I dont require any evidence, just making sure that is what you are saying.
You can believe anything if you refuse to look at the evidence!

I never asserted God or the Bible into the conversation, I only answered what was brought up.

What I think is not what matters, what matters is what the evidence shows.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:15 am

GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:33 am
paulzig wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:38 am
GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:28 am

Who created the alien?
Well, their home planet in the early stages had basic chemicals, HCNO maybe more that formed basic proteins via natural reaction aided by natural catalysts, then to single celled organism and it was all downhill from there.

But, do YOU assert that the god of the christian bible created everything as it is now, unchanged, no evolution occured? I thought that was a simple enough question, I dont require any evidence, just making sure that is what you are saying.
I never asserted God or the Bible into the conversation, I only answered what was brought up.

What I think is not what matters, what matters is what the evidence shows.
Im not saying that you asserted I am asking IF that is your position/assertion if so say it.. So if evidence was so insurmountable in favor of evolution you would accept it wholeheartedly?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by exhaustgases » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:51 am

paulzig wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:15 am
GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:33 am
paulzig wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:38 am


Well, their home planet in the early stages had basic chemicals, HCNO maybe more that formed basic proteins via natural reaction aided by natural catalysts, then to single celled organism and it was all downhill from there.

But, do YOU assert that the god of the christian bible created everything as it is now, unchanged, no evolution occured? I thought that was a simple enough question, I dont require any evidence, just making sure that is what you are saying.
I never asserted God or the Bible into the conversation, I only answered what was brought up.

What I think is not what matters, what matters is what the evidence shows.
Im not saying that you asserted I am asking IF that is your position/assertion if so say it.. So if evidence was so insurmountable in favor of evolution you would accept it wholeheartedly?
The Elements do not evolve. DNA was created its made from elements. Maybe DNA can evolve especially if it is subjected to energies, or anything else that can reprogram it.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:05 am

exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:51 am

The Elements do not evolve. DNA was created its made from elements. Maybe DNA can evolve especially if it is subjected to energies, or anything else that can reprogram it.
I listed some elements there for you HCNO hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen...

DNA is a CN based molecule... Basic proteins/amino acids can under the right circumstances form and this is the beginning of the abiogenesis hypothesis or in lay terms, life from NON-Life...

You mean elements dont change? They do change, Hydrogen makes the heavier elements through a fusion reaction. Or do you think every element was just created all unique without changing?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:07 am

paulzig wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:15 am
GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:33 am
paulzig wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:38 am


Well, their home planet in the early stages had basic chemicals, HCNO maybe more that formed basic proteins via natural reaction aided by natural catalysts, then to single celled organism and it was all downhill from there.

But, do YOU assert that the god of the christian bible created everything as it is now, unchanged, no evolution occured? I thought that was a simple enough question, I dont require any evidence, just making sure that is what you are saying.
I never asserted God or the Bible into the conversation, I only answered what was brought up.

What I think is not what matters, what matters is what the evidence shows.
Im not saying that you asserted I am asking IF that is your position/assertion if so say it.. So if evidence was so insurmountable in favor of evolution you would accept it wholeheartedly?
My study 17 years ago started by looking at the evidence, that is what has lead me to where I stand today, that study has not stopped and I will probably keep doing it daily until I die.

That is why I always try to back things with evidence and not just what I say.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:20 am

paulzig wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:05 am
exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:51 am

The Elements do not evolve. DNA was created its made from elements. Maybe DNA can evolve especially if it is subjected to energies, or anything else that can reprogram it.
I listed some elements there for you HCNO hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen...

DNA is a CN based molecule... Basic proteins/amino acids can under the right circumstances form and this is the beginning of the abiogenesis hypothesis or in lay terms, life from NON-Life...

You mean elements dont change? They do change, Hydrogen makes the heavier elements through a fusion reaction. Or do you think every element was just created all unique without changing?
This is the part I don't get, all of this stuff has been address in the videos I have posted from scientist in these fields but you refuse to look at them, especially the one I high lighted was the primary focus in the last video from a scientist where this is his major field but you want someone to accept what you are saying over a scientist that explains the impossible probability from scientific terms?

I just don't get it!

You do understand probability don't you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_total_probability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by joe 90 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:31 am

It's just like Murphy's law.


If something CAN happen then it WILL happen given sufficient time.
Time is infinite therefore it WILL happen.
It's just a matter of time.



Like when you didn't fix your car properly last time.
It's not a case of IF it breaks down again , it's just a case of WHEN it breaks.


As for compounds forming from HCNO.........
Before life , the earths atmosphere was completely different.
Organic compounds have been made( from HCNO etc) in the lab with things like electrical discharge and UV light.

The easiest compounds to make are ammonia , urea, sulphuric acid, nitric acid, once you've got those then others follow.
Acetylene is easy to make too.....limestone, carbon and heat followed by water.
But where does limestone come from?
Last edited by joe 90 on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:39 am

joe 90 wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:31 am
It's just like Murphy's law.


If something CAN happen then it WILL happen given sufficient time.
Time is infinite therefore it WILL happen.
It's just a matter of time.



Like when you didn't fix your car properly last time.
It's not a case of IF it breaks down again , it's just a case of WHEN it breaks.
Yeah, you can build a competitive race engine with just a carb, intake, heads and some headers, you don't need a block, rods, crank, pistons or ignition, just give it time!

Thats what your expecting and the problem has only gotten less likely with the more they learn!

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:42 am

GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:20 am


You do understand probability don't you?
Yes I do, do you understand that elements have affinities toward each other and as such it increases the likelihood of something happening given a favourable environment. In no way similar to a race engine or a building, a watch etc. The parts of these things do NOT have natural affinities. Thats the stupid watchmaker analogy and its been beat to death by apologists.

You still refuse to confirm or deny whether or not you take the position that the christian god as described created all organisms unchanged as they are..

You mention scientists, what about the scientists who maintain and show that evolution is how organisms came about not created by a god. Are they stupid?

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by GARY C » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:52 am

paulzig wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:42 am
GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:20 am


You do understand probability don't you?
Yes I do, do you understand that elements have affinities toward each other and as such it increases the likelihood of something happening given a favourable environment. In no way similar to a race engine or a building, a watch etc. The parts of these things do NOT have natural affinities. Thats the stupid watchmaker analogy and its been beat to death by apologists.

You still refuse to confirm or deny whether or not you take the position that the christian god as described created all organisms unchanged as they are..

You mention scientists, what about the scientists who maintain and show that evolution is how organisms came about not created by a god. Are they stupid?
No they don't!

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Re: The Science of Disinformation

Post by paulzig » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:51 am

GARY C wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:52 am

No they don't!
Many elements form compounds with hydrogen.
Then how do you explain the Hydrogen bond in water H and O?

If there is no affinity then why do they exist as a compound, why is there a bond there?

In a race engine, there is no natural affinity for a piston to a rod and a crank if you have those little C-clips for the piston pins its more of a supernatural repulsion because they do NOT want to go in there with ease.

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