You have to learn to sweep the floor

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rebelrouser
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You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by rebelrouser » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:29 am

Trump Quote on wildfires
"You gotta take care of the floors. You know the floors of the forest, very important... I was with the President of Finland... He called it a forest nation, and they spent a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things and they don't have any problem." - Trump

First they do have forest fires in Finland, they do not manage their forests a whole lot differently than the US, and in Finland they worry climate change is causing a bigger risk as temperatures rise. Or am I just an idiot? Or I may ask what do you do with the stuff you sweep off the floor of the forest? I live on 6 acres of wooded land, I have struggled with leaves for 20 years, not many easy solutions for leaf collection and disposal. How can anyone justify Trumps comments with people dying and cities being burned? The leader of Finland reports he does not remember talking to Trump about sweeping the forest.

https://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/pnw_gtr538.pdf
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/dry_ ... d/10221650
https://www.climatechangepost.com/finland/forest-fires/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/th ... be362a2b03

Brian P
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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by Brian P » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:01 pm

There's a simple answer to all of this. Trump knows not what he is talking about, but he talks anyhow.

"Sweeping" the forest floor is not even a remotely practical possibility when forests are on the scale of those in, for example, Finland, or Russia, or about 90% of Canada ... or the national forests in the USA.

And even if you were to do so ... it would be a disruptive process that interferes with natural events and the wildlife that naturally lives on and in that underbrush. We, as humanity, have interfered more than enough with natural processes. We shouldn't interfere any more.

Forest fires happen naturally. Humanity has gotten in the way of them. Human activities can indeed make them worse.

It would make more sense to construct buildings with fireproof exterior materials and ensure firebreaks between forests and residences so that when there is a forest fire, at least the residences don't burn (or fewer of them do, or the damage is less severe). It won't be 100% effective, but neither would "sweeping" the forest floor.

Common roofing construction in north America: Asphalt (hydrocarbon!) shingles, asphalt binding together stones, with plywood and wooden trusses underneath (all combustible). Common roofing construction in Europe: Tile. It doesn't matter what's underneath. Common wall construction in north America: Wooden or vinyl siding over foam (hydrocarbon!) insulation over OSB (wood) over wood studs (all combustible). Common wall construction in Europe: Stone. It doesn't matter what's inside. These constructions are by no means universal in either place. But the old buildings in Europe in towns that have been there for hundreds of years ... all have stone walls with tile roofs.

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by j-c-c » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:38 pm

Them Santa Ana winds sure get around. #-o

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by pdq67 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:44 pm

Easy solution!

Don't build where places tend to periodically burn up!

As well as where floods, mud slides, and other destructive natural shit happens.

pdq67

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by j-c-c » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:46 pm

Build an asbestos wall.
Post no smoking signs.

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by gmrocket » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:47 pm

Trump is right on...forest management is not pretty because it needs whole swaths of correct cut for fire breaks..if not, then fires will occur naturally.

So if you want to live in an area like that without active management, your taking your life in your hands.

It's beautiful to look at when it's solid forest as far as the eye can see, but without some clear cutting and Forrest management..it's a big fire risk

But no one wants that to take place around their house right? Cut the trees down around someone else 🙄

Sorry if the truth hurts

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by sanfordandson » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:10 pm

Trumps federal govt manages 60% of Californians forested land including where the camp fire started.

Another poorly managed trump federal agency!

Get your rake out trump!

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by exhaustgases » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:12 pm

Brian P wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:01 pm
There's a simple answer to all of this. Trump knows not what he is talking about, but he talks anyhow.

"Sweeping" the forest floor is not even a remotely practical possibility when forests are on the scale of those in, for example, Finland, or Russia, or about 90% of Canada ... or the national forests in the USA.

And even if you were to do so ... it would be a disruptive process that interferes with natural events and the wildlife that naturally lives on and in that underbrush. We, as humanity, have interfered more than enough with natural processes. We shouldn't interfere any more.

Forest fires happen naturally. Humanity has gotten in the way of them. Human activities can indeed make them worse.

It would make more sense to construct buildings with fireproof exterior materials and ensure firebreaks between forests and residences so that when there is a forest fire, at least the residences don't burn (or fewer of them do, or the damage is less severe). It won't be 100% effective, but neither would "sweeping" the forest floor.

Common roofing construction in north America: Asphalt (hydrocarbon!) shingles, asphalt binding together stones, with plywood and wooden trusses underneath (all combustible). Common roofing construction in Europe: Tile. It doesn't matter what's underneath. Common wall construction in north America: Wooden or vinyl siding over foam (hydrocarbon!) insulation over OSB (wood) over wood studs (all combustible). Common wall construction in Europe: Stone. It doesn't matter what's inside. These constructions are by no means universal in either place. But the old buildings in Europe in towns that have been there for hundreds of years ... all have stone walls with tile roofs.
Typical idiot response. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If the land was opened up to live on, and with no restrictions the forest floors could be easily swept up. I would love to have the appointed position to show how to accomplish it. Selective logging and using bulldozers to park out the forests. And all the debris would be turned into bio mass that some years back they were talking about doing, but I'm sure some nut case commie bunch stopped that idea. Watch the kilchers in Alaska and see how some of us should be living, they take care of their forest fire problems themselves. Kiltchers ? That is Jewel the singers family.

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by Brian P » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:30 pm

^ Typical uneducated response. Finland has a population density of 17 persons per square kilometre. That's a mere 60,000 square metres for each and every person to look after!

Canada has it much worse: 4 persons per square kilometre. 250,000 square metres for every man, woman, and child to take care of!

It's not hard to find out how the Finns themselves are reacting to this. It's news to them that they rake their forests!

https://inktank.fi/rake-news-how-social ... h-forests/

It's simply more fodder for Trump to be considered a laughingstock in the rest of the world ... which he is ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/1 ... land-rake/

The mockery extends clear across the globe ...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/a ... d=12162402

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by exhaustgases » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:37 am

Brian P wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:30 pm
^ Typical uneducated response. Finland has a population density of 17 persons per square kilometre. That's a mere 60,000 square metres for each and every person to look after!

Canada has it much worse: 4 persons per square kilometre. 250,000 square metres for every man, woman, and child to take care of!

It's not hard to find out how the Finns themselves are reacting to this. It's news to them that they rake their forests!

https://inktank.fi/rake-news-how-social ... h-forests/

It's simply more fodder for Trump to be considered a laughingstock in the rest of the world ... which he is ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/1 ... land-rake/

The mockery extends clear across the globe ...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/a ... d=12162402
No mine is a typical non communist response. The cure is to open the land to use, its as simple as that.

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by Brian P » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:45 am

Great idea. Let humans take over ALL land areas. Wipe out all small plants (underbrush) because it might catch fire. Won't have any forest fires if there's no forest. Wipe out all wildlife (depends on forests). Wipe out insects and bees (depend on plants). Also won't have a viable ecosystem (it's already far too fragile with what mankind has done). Eventually, won't have any food because of that. At that point, it becomes self correcting.

The planet needs forests, plants, wildlife. That means we need unmaintained forests, plants, and wildlife in their natural condition. That means there is a risk of forest fires, which occur for natural causes.

In Canada, only 11% of the total land area is "owned" by someone. I hope it goes no higher.

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by GRTfast » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:01 am

Brian P wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:45 am
Great idea. Let humans take over ALL land areas. Wipe out all small plants (underbrush) because it might catch fire. Won't have any forest fires if there's no forest. Wipe out all wildlife (depends on forests). Wipe out insects and bees (depend on plants). Also won't have a viable ecosystem (it's already far too fragile with what mankind has done). Eventually, won't have any food because of that. At that point, it becomes self correcting.

The planet needs forests, plants, wildlife. That means we need unmaintained forests, plants, and wildlife in their natural condition. That means there is a risk of forest fires, which occur for natural causes.

In Canada, only 11% of the total land area is "owned" by someone. I hope it goes no higher.
Arguing with EG is like giving medicine to a dead person.

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by j-c-c » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:28 am

GRTfast wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:01 am
Brian P wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:45 am
Great idea. Let humans take over ALL land areas. Wipe out all small plants (underbrush) because it might catch fire. Won't have any forest fires if there's no forest. Wipe out all wildlife (depends on forests). Wipe out insects and bees (depend on plants). Also won't have a viable ecosystem (it's already far too fragile with what mankind has done). Eventually, won't have any food because of that. At that point, it becomes self correcting.

The planet needs forests, plants, wildlife. That means we need unmaintained forests, plants, and wildlife in their natural condition. That means there is a risk of forest fires, which occur for natural causes.

In Canada, only 11% of the total land area is "owned" by someone. I hope it goes no higher.
Arguing with EG is like giving medicine to a dead person.
But dead people at least listen.

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by gmrocket » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:46 am

that land will come back stronger than ever, trees will regrow.

Ever heard of controlled burning to prevent this type of thing and to help the forest regenerate? There are a lot of groups who fight that kind of management.

Fire is not new, forest fires are not new...

We have the tree natzis here following around electrical company crews and city parks crews who trim or cut down trees that are deemed unsafe and may fall over or break apart,, coming down on wires, people or house.

The tree natzis will block crews physically or get the courts to delay or stop the work. Every municipal government here has an arborist on staff who knows what to do,, but they are thought of as anti environmental because the cut down trees..

Then when there is an ice storm, trees break apart and take out wires, causing power outages.. they come down on cars and house causing millions of dollars in damage..

It's a real mess...the msm will report it as an extreme wether event that's probably the result of climate change...the city gets sued for damages..

When someone speaks up and tells the truth about why it really happened, the left shut them down

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Re: You have to learn to sweep the floor

Post by Brian P » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:31 am

I wouldn't say the "left" shut them down; the "extremists" shut them down. Special interest groups ... usually comprised of people with strong beliefs but without proper knowledge.

Among the general public ... There is a shortage of critical thinking. There is a shortage of scientific knowledge. There is a shortage of belief in the scientific method. Some people think they know everything, but obviously don't (because no one does). Smarter people recognize that they do not know everything. The smartest people not only recognize that they do not know everything, but acknowledge that they don't even know what they don't know.

There is ample evidence that measures mankind takes to suppress forest fires, in areas where they naturally occur, eventually lead to forest fires that are worse.

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